I have never seen public perception change on an issue as much as Israel.

[Dave Gray]

Maybe I'm just old.

But there used to be a time where both major political parties fell all over themselves to prop-up Israel.  There wasn't any political room not to.  And I remember like one person who stood up to the idea that MAYBE we shouldn't be sending all this money over there.  I can't even remember who it was, but I think she was like...leaving Congress or something.  It made news and her stance was pretty tame.

And now, both parties seem to have flipped, if not for the leadership, certainly the voters.  The online left fucking hates Israel.  But so does the online right.  There's a little bit of different flavors of hate (genocide of gaza vs. Jews control the banks), but they're connecting in a "horseshoe politics" kind of way.  I've just never seen anything like it.

Also, it's an issue that I'm not really confident in talking about, because I find it very hard to get pinned down by words where I don't truly understand their meaning.  Things like "zionist" and "genocide" -- I think where you stand on the issues can simply come down to how you define those two words and whether or not you're confident in using them.  And depending on who you ask, those meanings change.

Also, I think that there's a blur between hating Netanyahu and his right-wing takeover --> not wanting to financially support another country in general --> hating the concept of Israel as a country that should be --> hating Israelis --> hating Jews in general.  I can see the slide on the spectrum happening in real time.

Anyway...it's just kind of wild how fast the public has turned and I don't think that politicians of either party have truly caught up to the voters yet.

[Denver2]

The American right is drifting more overt Nazi and white nationalist so Evangelical Christian Zionism is fading. So that’s why the right hates them.

Whatever you want to call it, genocide, ethnic cleansing or just mass murder it’s horrific and no amount of propaganda can hide it.

That said Israel is there and I’m not in favor of expulsion for Israelis but they must be pressured to start rectifying this atrocity and people must be held accountable.

[CF DolFan]

The American right is drifting more overt Nazi and white nationalist so Evangelical Christian Zionism is fading. So that’s why the right hates them.

Whatever you want to call it, genocide, ethnic cleansing or just mass murder it’s horrific and no amount of propaganda can hide it.

That said Israel is there and I’m not in favor of expulsion for Israelis but they must be pressured to start rectifying this atrocity and people must be held accountable.

The nutballs Candace Owens and Tucker Carlsons of the right are leading the hatred and they aren't really conservatives. They just want clicks and will say anything about anyone regardless of truth.

If you know anything about Israel, the people there have lived in fear for more than my lifetime. I knew an Arab Muslim born in Egypt and raised in France. To most people, he was a nice guy. As I got to know him pretty well, he openly revealed his hatred for Israel and justified the killing of kids, mothers, and even babies as he wanted them eradicated from this planet. No amount of peace talks will ever change his mind. The only way Israel survives is if they try and weed out the 30% of the Palestinians and other Arabs who want them dead at no cost. Unfortunately that cost is innocent lives of the people they hide behind.

According to Google ... Terrorist attacks on them have taken place both within Israel as well as internationally. They have been directed at both military and civilians of many countries. Tactics have included hostage taking, plane hijacking, boat hijacking, stone throwing, improvised explosive device, knife attacks, shooting sprees, attacks with vehicles, car bombs and assassinations. In the 1990s, groups seeking to stop Israeli-Palestinian negotiations began adopting suicide bombings, predominantly targeting civilians, which later peaked during the Second Intifada. In recent decades, violence has also included rocket attacks on Israeli urban centers. The October 7 attacks resulted in massacres and hostage-taking.

Suicide bombings constituted 0.5% of Palestinian attacks against Israelis in the first two years of the Second Intifada, though this percentage accounted for half of the Israelis killed in that period. As of 2022, a majority of Palestinians, 59%, believe armed attacks against Israelis inside Israel are an effective measure to end the occupation, with 56% supporting them.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Antisemitism is nothing new. Took a little pause on it in the middle of the 20th and the world collectively said, "maybe we went a little too far this time"  But didn't really reverse course.  Even in 1960 when it was proven beyond any doubt that Argentina was harboring and protecting Nazi leaders, the world's response was to condemn Israel for bringing the architect of the Holocaust to justice rather than condemn Argentina for protecting Nazis.   

It didn't bother "the left" when Jessie Jackson called NYC "Hymietown"  Which is no less offensive then calling Harlem n*****ville. Antisemitism is nothing new.  Blaming Israel for Oct 7th war, is just the latest incantation of it. 

[Spider-Dan]

Israel's overt partisan shift towards the GOP (e.g. Netanyahu speaking to Congress to denounce the Obama Administration) has eliminated a lot of the willingness on the left to simply accept their claims about dangerous Palestinians at face value.  30 years ago, Israel might have been able to get unflinching bipartisan approval of their ethnic cleansing campaign in Gaza; now, their actions are evaluated much more critically.

In addition, Netanyahu is pretty openly fascist.  Like Trump, he needs to stay in power to stay out of prison.  "Democracy" in Israel has been backsliding even faster than in the US.

[Dave Gray]

Blaming Israel for Oct 7th war, is just the latest incantation of it. 

I agree with a lot of your post, but then this sentence kind of falls flat for me.  I think you can evaluate and blame a government for a war without it being an attack on its people, whether you're correct or incorrect on your assertion.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I agree with a lot of your post, but then this sentence kind of falls flat for me.  I think you can evaluate and blame a government for a war without it being an attack on its people, whether you're correct or incorrect on your assertion.

Blaming Oct 7 on Israel is like blaming 9/11 or Pearl Harbor on the USA.  I do realize there are some people in this country who blame Lincoln for starting the Civil War or Biden for Jan 6.  But that is just as delusional as blaming Israel for Oct 7.

[Sunstroke]

^^^ With respect, those are 4 ridiculous examples...

[Spider-Dan]

It didn't bother "the left" when Jessie Jackson called NYC "Hymietown"  Which is no less offensive then calling Harlem n*****ville. Antisemitism is nothing new.

You have mentioned this multiple times.  That is an awful lot of mileage to get out of "the left" over a statement from 40 years ago, made by a person who has never held any official elected office, and whose electoral history peaked at "lost a Democratic presidential primary by a wide margin."

At that same moment in time, "the left" didn't believe in a right for same-sex marriage...  which tells us nothing about "the left's" position on LGBT rights today.

Blaming Oct 7 on Israel is like blaming 9/11 or Pearl Harbor on the USA.  I do realize there are some people in this country who blame Lincoln for starting the Civil War or Biden for Jan 6.  But that is just as delusional as blaming Israel for Oct 7.

I "blame 9/11" on the Al-Qaeda extremists who flew the planes into the buildings. But I also blame George W. Bush for recklessly disregarding the multiple intelligence reports he received about Bin Laden planning a strike in the US, and I blame those in the US who used the specter of 9/11 to lie us into an illegal war with Iraq.

Similarly, I "blame October 7" on the Hamas extremists who kidnapped and murdered hundreds of innocent civilians.  But I also blame Netanyahu for ignoring the warnings he received about a planned Hamas strike, and I blame those in Israel who have used October 7 as an excuse to implement a genocidal campaign of ethnic cleansing across Gaza and the West Bank.

[Spider-Dan]

The nutballs Candace Owens and Tucker Carlsons of the right are leading the hatred and they aren't really conservatives. They just want clicks and will say anything about anyone regardless of truth.

Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson are definitely conservatives in 2026 America.  They are more conservative than Donald Trump, whom you have voted for multiple times.  You are trying to disown them because you find their hatred - the same hatred they have been spewing for over a decade - to be inconvenient when aimed at people you consider allies.

Now, are they conservative grifters who go where the money is?  Sure... but so is Trump, so is JD Vance, so is Ron DeSantis, so is Sean Hannity, etc.  And to be honest, any real conservative with an actual system of morals would have abandoned the movement the moment Donald Trump took over.  Anyone who still calls themselves a "conservative Republican" in America today is necessarily a dishonest sellout, willing to discard whatever so-called morals they had while desperately grasping for more power.

[Denver2]

The nutballs Candace Owens and Tucker Carlsons of the right are leading the hatred and they aren't really conservatives. They just want clicks and will say anything about anyone regardless of truth.

If you know anything about Israel, the people there have lived in fear for more than my lifetime. I knew an Arab Muslim born in Egypt and raised in France. To most people, he was a nice guy. As I got to know him pretty well, he openly revealed his hatred for Israel and justified the killing of kids, mothers, and even babies as he wanted them eradicated from this planet. No amount of peace talks will ever change his mind. The only way Israel survives is if they try and weed out the 30% of the Palestinians and other Arabs who want them dead at no cost. Unfortunately that cost is innocent lives of the people they hide behind.

According to Google ... Terrorist attacks on them have taken place both within Israel as well as internationally. They have been directed at both military and civilians of many countries. Tactics have included hostage taking, plane hijacking, boat hijacking, stone throwing, improvised explosive device, knife attacks, shooting sprees, attacks with vehicles, car bombs and assassinations. In the 1990s, groups seeking to stop Israeli-Palestinian negotiations began adopting suicide bombings, predominantly targeting civilians, which later peaked during the Second Intifada. In recent decades, violence has also included rocket attacks on Israeli urban centers. The October 7 attacks resulted in massacres and hostage-taking.

Suicide bombings constituted 0.5% of Palestinian attacks against Israelis in the first two years of the Second Intifada, though this percentage accounted for half of the Israelis killed in that period. As of 2022, a majority of Palestinians, 59%, believe armed attacks against Israelis inside Israel are an effective measure to end the occupation, with 56% supporting them.

Compare the casualty rate since 1948 between Israeli’s and Palestinians, it’s not even close. Whose killing who and whose been doing it for 7 decades?

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Compare the casualty rate since 1948 between Israeli’s and Palestinians, it’s not even close. Whose killing who and whose been doing it for 7 decades?

Then compare the number of Japanese civilians killed by the Americans vs Americans civilians killed by the Japanese in WW2. 

[Denver2]

Then compare the number of Japanese civilians killed by the Americans vs Americans civilians killed by the Japanese in WW2. 

Utterly ridiculous comparison but one can and should criticize American fire bombing it civilian areas and using the nukes.

[Dave Gray]

Blaming Oct 7 on Israel is like blaming 9/11 or Pearl Harbor on the USA.  I do realize there are some people in this country who blame Lincoln for starting the Civil War or Biden for Jan 6.  But that is just as delusional as blaming Israel for Oct 7.

I don't blame the attacks on Oct 7th on Israel at all. 

But I don't agree with their continued assault on an entire population in Gaza, especially with our money.  I don't think that's a crazy position.

Hamas is the worst.  But the tactics in the name of finding them has gone too far.

[CF DolFan]

Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson are definitely conservatives in 2026 America.  They are more conservative than Donald Trump, whom you have voted for multiple times.  You are trying to disown them because you find their hatred - the same hatred they have been spewing for over a decade - to be inconvenient when aimed at people you consider allies.

Now, are they conservative grifters who go where the money is?  Sure... but so is Trump, so is JD Vance, so is Ron DeSantis, so is Sean Hannity, etc.  And to be honest, any real conservative with an actual system of morals would have abandoned the movement the moment Donald Trump took over.  Anyone who still calls themselves a "conservative Republican" in America today is necessarily a dishonest sellout, willing to discard whatever so-called morals they had while desperately grasping for more power.

You are so funny and will distort anything to try and make a point. I will, and have said several times that Trump is not a conservative. He has some conservative views but he is just as much a liberal in many ways. Ron DeSantis is a conservative. Marco Rubio is a conservative. Ted Cruz is a conservative and Thomas Massie is ultra conservative but many in the republican party are not.