A real question - When to bench Henne?

[Dave Gray]

I'm not suggesting that we bench Henne.  I do, however, see better performance from our team when Pennington plays.  I don't know exactly what it is, and since they're not both playing with/against the first teams, it's an apples to oranges comparison.

But, I don't see Henne improving.  I know that he's the plan for the future, but at what point do you go with the guy who helps you win now?

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

It is an apples to orange comparison. 

At the earliest you bench him week 10.  And then you draft a QB in 2011.  This organization is not going to win a playoff game with Pennington ever.  You give Henne as many chances as you can and if he doesn't develop, you try again with someone else. 

[Tepop84]

I'm not suggesting that we bench Henne.  I do, however, see better performance from our team when Pennington plays.  I don't know exactly what it is, and since they're not both playing with/against the first teams, it's an apples to oranges comparison.

But, I don't see Henne improving.  I know that he's the plan for the future, but at what point do you go with the guy who helps you win now?

play the best qb which is pennington.  it isn't like henne is going to get worse by not playing.  lots of qb have sat for several years before starting and it didn't hurt them.

[mecadonzilla]

First of all, hi to everyone.  I'm new to posting here, but have been lurking around for a while getting a feel for the board.  And now is the time I must comment.

Secondly, I have to give my 2 cents worth on the QB situation.

When teams game plan for a Chad Pennington lead Dolphin team, the Dolphins lose.  He does not have the arm to lead a NFL offense anymore.  He can't throw deep accurately.  He can't throw simple out routs with nearly enough zip.  Everything he throws has an arc on it that would make Jay Fiedler proud.  All he has is moxie...which is only enough to come in off the bench and steal a game when the opponent isn't ready for him.  His tremendous physical limitations make him very easy to game plan for, and frankly, I was hoping he would retire in the off season and be a QB coach in Miami.  Besides, wasn't his lack of ability what caused the Dolphins to start using the Wildcat offense in the first place?

I saw very little from Henne tonight and was thoroughly disgusted with not only his play, but the play of the entire first string on both sides of the ball.  That being said, there's nothing wrong with developing Henne as the starter.  I don't think this is a Superbowl team under the best case scenario, so I don't mind him learning on the field...there's not much to lose.  I thought Henne played pretty well in the first 2 preseason games, but hasn't done much since Jacksonville.  IMHO we already know what Pennington can do.  Let's see what the kid with the rocket arm can do.  His only competition should be from Thigpen with Pennington holding the clipboard unless injury dictates otherwise. 

Henne's got to play some more regular season action where the coaches actually coach and game plan for an opponent.  Thankfully, that first opponent is Buffalo, who's not a good team, so that should help everybody on the team out.  The early schedule gets pretty tough after that, and I'm very curious to see what he and the team can do.  The early bye week should help out, too.

[Dave Gray]

^ Welcome to the boards.

As for your comments, I agree on pretty much everything.

Ultimately, I don't think you can play Pennington because he's not the answer, in terms of the goal of winning championships.  In the short term, however, I think he can win you games, even if you're game-planning for him.  He doesn't, however, have the physical skills to get it done against playoff caliber teams, and never will.

With Henne, the upside is considerably higher than with Pennington.  But I don't think he's as good a player right now.

And I think there's something to the balance of planning for the future, but also continuing a culture of winning.  Let's not forget that Pennington led us to a pretty great season just 2 years ago.

[badger6]

Everyone overlooks Thiggy. I would have Henne, Thiggy, and then Pennington on the depth chart when the season starts. Pennington should be a last resort, he is too fragile.

[dolfan13]

backup qb is always the most popular guy with fans on the team...

as painful as it is or may be, you have to develop a qb. if henne is going to be the guy that can truly be a game changer on this offense, it's going to take some time. you stick with him as starter good or bad the entire year (unless he gets hurt), then re-assess in the offseason.

it might be a rough start for this team out of the gate, but the second half of the season you should see significant progress.

[Brian Fein]

If we want to be a contender in the future - 1, 2, 4, 10 years from now - it has to be with someone OTHER than Pennington.  Right now, the best option is Henne. 

If Henne doesn't work out this year, don't be surprised to see the Fins chase a 2nd round QB next draft.

But, I don't think you can bench Henne.  He needs to take his lumps and learn from them.  If he sucks, then fine, but it does us no good to just win games for no reason, playing spoiler, etc, by starting Pennington.  Just like mecadonzilla said, Pennington's balls sail and float and are generally pick-off-able.  We had a guy named Fiedler who had similar skills and you all couldn't WAIT to run him out of town. 

Pennington is smart, serviceable, and accurate, but he's not going to bring this team to the Lombardi Trophy.

[Phishfan]

Why are we even having this conversation in preseason? We all know the games mean nothing. No one gets concerned about the Colts in preseason. Lets get into real games where players actually play a full game and then discuss if we have issues. I think they shouldn't even televise the preseason because it sucks. It isn't a real NFL product although they like to act like it is.

[Sunstroke]

Why are we even having this conversation in preseason?

Amen... Someone needs to let the Chicken Littles of the world know that the sky can't even begin to fall until the regular season starts

[Pappy13]

I was at the game last night and from my seats Pennington looked terrible.  His passes have absolutely no zip.  Everyone of them looks like a touch pass regardless if it is to a runningback 3 feet away or 20 yards down the field, it just hangs in the air.  Luckily he's so good at placing the ball where he wants it doesn't get picked, but he's not the answer at QB if you expect to have a balanced offense and the way the running game looks, I think you better have a balanced offense.

If it were up to me, I'd have Thigpen as the backup to Henne.  His passes are so much crisper.  We really haven't seen a whole lot of Pennington this pre-season, I honestly think a little bit of that "Pennington moves the ball better" is wishful thinking.  Thinking that he's going to look like he did 2 years ago.  I have seen no indication of that in preseason.  Here were his plays from last night and remember that Dallas played almost no starters the whole game.  They were playing 3rd string guys by the time Pennington was in there.

Result of play  Dist    Target   Comments
sacked           -5      
incomplete      short   none     Thrown away
incomplete      short   Hartline  Dropped
complete        9        Bess   
complete        2        Bess   
complete        1        Bess   
complete        14       Moore   
complete        5        Hartline   
Scramble        10      
complete        13       Hartline   
incomplete      deep   Martin  
incomplete      deep   Cobbs    
complete        2        Hartline  TD

The 2 incomplete deep balls are the ones that really shocked me.  The one to Martin floated and gave the Safety plenty of time to come over to make the play.  Martin really had no chance to catch it.  On the one to Cobbs the ball was well underthrown and Cobbs had to try to come back to the ball, luckily the defensive back never turned around and it hit him in the back and was called for the pass interference, but it was a terrible throw.

I know it doesn't look too good for Henne in preseason, but I still think he needs more time.  Not just more time in this offense, but more time with Brandon Marshall.  Those 2 guys do not look to be on the same page a lot of the time.  Remember that Marshall was hurt and hasn't had a ton of reps with Henne.  I know he has tremendous physical ability, but I'm not sure that he's figured out the Dolphins offense completely yet.  He looks out of rhythm.  Even when Henne hits him right in stride a lot of times it doesn't end up a completion.  I'm hoping that he's still just pressing will calm down once the season get's going and he gets a few plays under his belt.

[masterfins]

I have to agree with everything B Fein said above.  I said last year it takes some time to develope a QB (every year there is a team that sucks who drafts a #1 QB and they throw him in there with an O-Line that sucks, no RB's and no WR's, and they wonder why they wash out).  That said, it's time for Henne to step up, so you have to play him and keep playing him to see what he will turn into, by the end of the year we will know.  Hopefully he comes out in Buffalo and has a great game to build his confidence for the season ahead (I'll be at the game right near the Dolphins sideline).  Furthermore, hopefully the Dolphins are trying to work on things in preseason games that they feel they need to improve on, and that we are not seeing some of the plays they feel they have mastered.

[bsfins]

Excuse me, but this is going to sound a bit like a whacked out rant.....

I feel,as soon as you start talking about failure,and contingency plans,and jerking QB's in and out...You're breaking them....It seems like young QB's that get shots to start,then get in these QB controversies,never seem to get "it" back.I think once they're in the league for 4-6 years,they tend to be able to handle it better...Those young guy's (in a lot of cases) end up as very questionable back ups....The Dolphins  have two of those guy's that ***I***perceive as "very breakable" Thigpen,and Henne...

I think I'll avoid watching the replay of this game....

[Tepop84]

Excuse me, but this is going to sound a bit like a whacked out rant.....

I feel,as soon as you start talking about failure,and contingency plans,and jerking QB's in and out...You're breaking them....It seems like young QB's that get shots to start,then get in these QB controversies,never seem to get "it" back.I think once they're in the league for 4-6 years,they tend to be able to handle it better...Those young guy's (in a lot of cases) end up as very questionable back ups....The Dolphins  have two of those guy's that ***I***perceive as "very breakable" Thigpen,and Henne...

I think I'll avoid watching the replay of this game....

  you could say those qbs who get the chance to start and then lose the job werent that good to begin with and it didnt matter whether they stayed as the starting qb or got pulled.  they would have peaked as bad backups either way.

[Doc-phin]

Any time of year, including preseason this conversation is worth having.  It is not a calling for heads to roll but just an idea if circumstances arise.

If Henne isn't helping the team by week 6 it will be time to look for someone else for a little spark.  By no means does this mean Henne would be finished.  We have a very difficult early schedule and any of our QBs could struggle.  But you don't want to show the team that you aren't trying to win, so you have to give someone else a shot for at least a game or two to show accountability IMO.

In my mind this is a discussion based on O-line performance.  If our O-line isn't giving consistant protection I think we should look at Thigpen.  He handles pressure very well and seems reasonably durable.  In all honesty, he could be as good as any of the QBs but suffers from small school syndrome.

If we have a decent run game and fair or better protection, Pennington is a master of the dink and dunk and we should probably look to him to keep our offense on the field, ball protect and pull out some low scoring games.  I hate watching games like that, but it is probably the best way to go to put a few wins on the board.

I have said this before, but I really look at Thigpen as a solid future possibility.  This is not just me liking the backup.  I prefer for Henne to get his shot and he deserves it.  I am not very concerned with preseason performance.  But if he proves not to be ready via regular season play, I would like to see a fiesty winner type like Thigpen play.

Lastly, if this offense struggles this year I am probably going to look at Henning as the one to fault.  He has plenty of talent, but he is too conservative too often.  Today's NFL is not designed for conservative play to get you to the big one especially with such a young defense.