Does anyone miss the NBA?

[Spider-Dan]

Regarding my "skill-set"? Really? You know nothing about me. I'm premed and will make low to middle six figures with my "skill-set."

Awesome.  So you have just confirmed two things:

1) you are not currently in the top 0.0000001% of your profession
2) you will not generate tens of millions of dollars per year for your employer

So what possible relevance does your current or future job (plans) have to that of an elite pro athlete with a multimillion dollar skillset?  Why should he approach his career decisions in the same way as someone making less than 10% of his salary?

I'm also a three time national powerlifting champion with a documented drug-free bench press of 420 pounds at a body weight of 143, and 370 at a body weight of 132. I know plenty about athletes, thanks.

Cool story, bro.  Unless you were making seven figures in this endeavor, it is mightily irrelevant to the discussion.

[EKnight]

You might be the most judgemental AND hypocritical person I've ever met. It's ok for you to blatantly attack me, but god forbid someone attacks LeBron or you go nuts. What's your hard-on for this guy all about? You have NO IDEA whether I'm in the top whatever percent or HOW MUCH I may generate. Your entire statement was about how I can't compare myself to "elite" athletes, or how I'm not in whatever percent based on my "skill-set." You were wrong on both accounts, and when I showed that you decide it's somehow irrelevant? Tell you what- why bother having a forum at all? Why not just set up posts on your own so we can all learn from your greatness, and you can just tell us what to think? -EK

[Spider-Dan]

You have NO IDEA whether I'm in the top whatever percent or HOW MUCH I may generate. Your entire statement was about how I can't compare myself to "elite" athletes, or how I'm not in whatever percent based on my "skill-set."

Oh, before I did not; I was guessing.  Then you confirmed it.

You just said you are premed.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but that means that you aren't a doctor yet.  So what is your profession right now... student?  Intern?  Whatever it is, it's nothing remotely close to an NBA player.

You then went on to say that you expect to make "low to middle six-figures."  Presuming that you actually achieve that, that's less than 1/10th of the average NBA salary.  Among doctors worldwide, I think it's fair to say that "low to middle six figures" is not someone that's even in the top 1%.  And even top 1% is commonplace compared to NBA-level ability.

So based solely on the information you have provided, you have confirmed that neither your skillset nor your expected income are anywhere near those of an NBA player.  Which is fine; neither are mine.  But I'm not the one running around telling NBA players that they should be grateful to have a job in this economy, or telling them that they have enough money already.  They can and should negotiate for as much money as they can, just as the owners do.

[EKnight]

I'm confused- for three years I was the BEST in the entire country and top ten in the WORLD for at my weight class in a recognized sport. How does that "skillset" (stupid, obnoxious buzz-word, btw) NOT qualify me to understand or compare myself to an NBA player? Money aside- because you still have no idea if something I research or work on as may generate five cents or five billion dollars- I was responding to the comment you made, "your skillset is not in the top 0.0000001%" Let's see- world population just hit 7 billion. How man people do you know that can bench press right at three times their body weight, without the use of PED's? Probably less than the 450 players active for the NBA at any one time. I think that more than fits your criteria. -EK

[Spider-Dan]

I'm confused- for three years I was the BEST in the entire country and top ten in the WORLD for at my weight class in a recognized sport. How does that "skillset" (stupid, obnoxious buzz-word, btw) NOT qualify me to understand or compare myself to an NBA player? Money aside- because you still have no idea if something I research or work on as may generate five cents or five billion dollars- I was responding to the comment you made, "your skillset is not in the top 0.0000001%"

Sorry, I was unclear.  When I'm talking about "skillsets" (in the context of NBA labor), I'm talking about professional skillsets; i.e. those used to make a living.  You might be really good at powerlifting... or frisbee golf... or Call of Duty.  You may even be a world champion.  Nothing wrong with that, and more power to you.

But that is not remotely the same thing as being in the top 0.0000001% with a skill that generates multimillions of dollars.  Sorry, it just isn't.  So your perspective (as an athlete) is not remotely comparable to that of an NBA player, and bears less similarity to the types of career decisions that an NBA player has to make than, say, Warren Buffett.

[mecadonzilla]

OK, so since facts are what matter:  LeBron didn't actually choose where to go at all, and merely reported to the team that he was traded to.  Your entire line of argument is nullified.  Q.E.D.

Sure Lebron told the team where to trade him, but hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good argument.  It's never stopped you before.

Spidey has been arguing for the sake of argument for a couple of pages now as is his M.O.  This thread has become extremely tedious and tiresome, and I'm going to take my talents to South Beach with Lebron.

[Spider-Dan]

Sure Lebron told the team where to trade him, but hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good argument.

You're the one that's insisting on this absurd equivalency.  If you are going to strictly read the letter of record, the facts are that Cleveland chose to trade a player that they had under contract.

Does such a summary reflect the practical reality of the situation?  No, but neither does, "Both LBJ and Garnett were traded."  LBJ was a free-agent who participated in a sign-and-trade, which bears very little resemblance to a player being traded mid-contract.

[EKnight]

Sorry, I was unclear.  When I'm talking about "skillsets" (in the context of NBA labor), I'm talking about professional skillsets; i.e. those used to make a living.  You might be really good at powerlifting... or frisbee golf... or Call of Duty.  You may even be a world champion.  Nothing wrong with that, and more power to you.

But that is not remotely the same thing as being in the top 0.0000001% with a skill that generates multimillions of dollars.  Sorry, it just isn't.  So your perspective (as an athlete) is not remotely comparable to that of an NBA player, and bears less similarity to the types of career decisions that an NBA player has to make than, say, Warren Buffett.

Even if your perspective is completely accurate- and I don't agree that it is- my POV is closer to a "professional athletes" than yours is, so you have no business discounting my opinion on the matter or acting as if I have no validity on it at all. I have no clue why you keep ignoring the "big picture" of my point to narrow in on one aspect. The entire debate was whether or not I agreed with Boston doing what the Heat did, and when I said "No, I think ANYONE doing it is wrong," you somehow still fixated on an LBJ argument, of which I have no desire to debate. You further degraded the conversation into a personal attack on me by somehow invalidating my opinion on the matter because I don't make XX number of dollars or am not a professional athlete. News flash- you're not either, but I've never said that disqualifies you from having an opinion on it. Just because you disagree with me doesn't mean I'm wrong. -EK

[Spider-Dan]

Even if your perspective is completely accurate- and I don't agree that it is- my POV is closer to a "professional athletes" than yours is, so you have no business discounting my opinion on the matter or acting as if I have no validity on it at all.

Again, unless you earned a living doing it, your experience is less relevant than that of, say, a professional Starcraft player.

Pro athletes are paid entertainers, in a field that grosses billions of entertainment dollars.  You don't have any professional standing to give them career advice, no matter how you spent your free time.

You further degraded the conversation into a personal attack on me by somehow invalidating my opinion on the matter because I don't make XX number of dollars or am not a professional athlete. News flash- you're not either, but I've never said that disqualifies you from having an opinion on it.

Sorry, but you are the one that turned the discussion towards the occupations of the posters in this thread, when you said:

The greedy ass players believe that they "deserve" more than 50% of the profits. WTF? How much money do these guys need to make? Selfish, self-absorbed, arrogant, whining twenty year old toddlers. Any member of this board who disagrees with that- go to your job, tell the boss you demand half of the company's profits and see how that works out for you. 10% of this country can't get a job and these guys are bitching about getting even MORE money that most of us will make in our lifetime.

If you want to compare NBA players' career choices to those of "members of this board," then don't act all outraged when I compare them to... members of this board.

[EKnight]

That's the most ridiculous logic I've ever heard. Because I didn't play, I can't have an opinion? Sports writers who never played make a living having and publishing their opinions on these matters. Are all of their opinions invalid too? YOU didn't play; does that make your opinion invalid? I have literally spent years working in strength and conditioning with pro athletes- both NBa and a current NFL lineman. I'm not average Joe outsider looking in; I DO actually have some firsthand insight with these guys (at least as much as some sports writers) so explain how my OPINION on this stuff (other than because you disagree with it) is invalid? -EK

[Spider-Dan]

For the third time, I'm not saying you can't have an opinion.

YOU are saying that based on the everyday job experiences of MEMBERS OF THIS BOARD, NBA players should just accept whatever the owners are offering.  I am saying that the career decisions of the middle-class members of this board have nothing in common with the career decisions of multimillionaire professional athletes.  And any "criticism" I've offered of your particular situation is only to the extent that you are clearly not a multimillionaire professional athlete, nor do you appear to be headed in that direction (based on your stated career path).

So any references to "walk into your bosses office and ask him for [xyz]" are irrelevant, because the relationship between you and your boss is vastly different than between the NBA players' union and the owners.

[EKnight]

It's not though. No matter how you wish to twist it or how often you insist on it, it's not different, and it's elitist to believe it is. Because some people make less or more money, they should get special privedges or have a different set of rights? Apparently NOT because when the players said we deserve more, the owners promptly said, "no you don't- and we can solve the whole thing. LOCKOUT." Whatever the previous agreement was worked for the entire time it was in place; it is the players' greed that has caused them to be locked out. It's the EXACT same thing as a member of this board doing the same with his or her boss. Both are greedy and ridiculous, and both end up with the employee having no job. How is that different? If it was even remotely different- in the slightest way- there would be no lockout and we would have no thread here. -EK

[Spider-Dan]

It's not though. No matter how you wish to twist it or how often you insist on it, it's not different, and it's elitist to believe it is. Because some people make less or more money, they should get special privedges or have a different set of rights?

Um, yes.  I'm presuming you've held a job before, so you should be familiar with the concept that in higher paying jobs, you get all sorts of benefits (like vacation time, retirement plans, stock options, etc.) that you don't get in lower paying jobs.

Comparing an NBA player's job (and career choices) to that of a construction worker, bank teller, or any other middle-class citizen is absurd.

Apparently NOT because when the players said we deserve more, the owners promptly said, "no you don't- and we can solve the whole thing. LOCKOUT." Whatever the previous agreement was worked for the entire time it was in place; it is the players' greed that has caused them to be locked out.

Do you even know what a lockout is?

A lockout is when the OWNERS (<--- this part is important) decide that THEY do not want to abide by the current contracts in place.  The players don't want MORE; they want exactly what they have already been getting.  If they players want more and the owners disagree, the players' option would be to strike, which is the opposite of what is currently happening.

It would help if you didn't have the current scenario entirely backward.

[EKnight]

That's not at all what is happening as I understand it. Correct me where I'm mistaken. The old agreement expired. The owners voted not to extend it into 2011-2012. The league has lost 400 MILLION dollars and has to restructure a new deal going forward. The players had previously been getting 57% of profits, while the league was losing money. Stay with me here- there's NO agreement at this point. The owners propose to have an even 50/50 split of the revenue, which the players decline, and this they are locked out. Where did I mess up there? There was no "current contract." The previous contract was no longer in effect. -EK

[Spider-Dan]

The players have contracts; Miami's Big Three obviously didn't sign 1-year-deals.

The owners do not wish to honor the existing contracts in effect.  Therefore, they lock the players out.

The expiration of the CBA does not immediately mean that all existing contracts are somehow voided.  If that were the case, every player would now be a free agent, free to sign with whichever team they like upon the ratification of a new CBA.

When players are not happy with current conditions, their recourse is to strike (see: 1994 MLB strike).  When owners are not happy with current conditions, their recourse is to enact a lockout (see: 2011 NFL lockout).  The current NBA work stoppage was initiated by the OWNERS, not the players.

Now, you could take the position that regardless of it's a strike or a lockout, it's always the players' fault.  But unless you're willing to acknowledge that, it's silly to rest the blame for a lockout at the feet of the players.  They only want to continue forward with the arrangements as they are/were.