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Poll
Question: Do you think Zimmerman is
Guilty   -5 (25%)
Not Guilty   -2 (10%)
Self Defense   -1 (5%)
You don't know enough to decide   -12 (60%)
Total Voters: 17

Author Topic: Trayvon Martin case  (Read 148968 times)
Phishfan
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« Reply #165 on: April 03, 2012, 04:20:26 pm »

Just for the record, the Zimmerman police surveillance tape that was released does not have the same aspect ratio as the original video; the video was squished horizontally to fit.  This makes everyone in that video (the cops, and Zimmerman) appear thinner.

Lawrence O'Donnell had a forensics expert on to analyze the clip (among other things), and they aired an aspect-corrected version of the surveillance video.

I didn't see the show. Did they happen to mention how distorted the video is? What they expect Zimmerman's weight to be?
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 04:30:10 pm by Phishfan » Logged
Pats2006
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« Reply #166 on: April 03, 2012, 05:19:32 pm »

Media malpractice alert: ABC and NBC backtrack on Zimmerman stories

Coverage of media coverage of the Trayvon Martin shooting has now fully separated from the actual events of February 26, 2012, and become a separate story in its own right, as have political attempts to manipulate perceptions of the case.  Two important updates on the media front:

First, NBC News has launched an “internal investigation” of how a heavily edited version of the audio from George Zimmerman’s 911 call on the March 27 broadcast of the “Today” show.  The same “mistake” was made in a written transcript published at MSNBC.com.

It should be a fairly short “internal investigation,” because the brass just needs to figure out who decided to edit the following conversation between Zimmerman and the dispatcher:

ZIMMERMAN: This guy looks like he's up to no good… or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.

DISPATCHER: Okay, is this guy, is he white, black, or Hispanic?

ZIMMERMAN: He looks black.

… into this: “This guy looks like he’s up to no good… he looks black.”  As deceptive edits go, it’s rather clumsy, isn’t it?  Not to mention grossly irresponsible, given the volatile situation surrounding the Sanford case.

Meanwhile, ABC News manufactured a “scoop” last week by releasing edited video from the Sanford Police Department, ostensibly “proving” that Zimmerman didn’t have any visible injuries.  Since Zimmerman claims to have been physically assaulted by Trayvon Martin, a lack of injuries would do some damage to his story.

But ABC not only failed to remind its readers that Zimmerman was treated by paramedics at the scene of Martin’s death – a well-established hard fact documented in police reports.  They also used an on-screen graphic to obscure Zimmerman’s head at a crucial moment in their “big scoop” video clip.  Without this graphic, viewers can see a rather large gash on the back of Zimmerman’s head, which is totally consistent with his story, and completely destroys the action line for ABC’s “reporting.”  The video loudly touted as showing no injuries did, in fact, depict what appears to be a significant injury.

Lo and behold, ABC News has now produced an “enhanced” version of the security camera video, and whaddya know – it’s another sizzling-hot blockbuster scoop, which just happens to completely erase the previous scoop, because after more “enhancement and re-digitization” than Disney deployed to create Tron:Legacy, it turns out ABC’s sharp-eyed analysts can see that scar too!

Thus, ABC News claims to have “revealed for the first time” what everyone who didn’t fall for their earlier “scoop” could easily see with their own eyes, by viewing the unedited security tape.  Maybe a sufficiently loud cry of “Whoops!” will make an internal investigation unnecessary.
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Dave Gray
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« Reply #167 on: April 03, 2012, 05:34:41 pm »

How did this become a partisan issue?  WTF...
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Phishfan
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« Reply #168 on: April 03, 2012, 05:47:11 pm »

^^^ This has been a partisan issue from day one. Look a thow many items have been reported and then taken back. You heard the police did not confiscate the gun- false reporting. It was reported Zimmerman was 250 and Martin 140- false reporting. Old pictures of both persons were used to sway opinion- false perceptions. It was reported that there were no visible injuries- false reporting. It was reported the police did not rope off the crime scene while investigating- false reporting. Gated community- false perceptions I'm sure there are more.

Trust me, I'm a farily liberal guy but I can completely see the complaint about the "liberal media" right now. There was a shooting that people are outraged over and the media is perpetuating the hype rather than reporting the facts in many instances.
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Pats2006
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« Reply #169 on: April 03, 2012, 05:52:00 pm »

^^^ This has been a partisan issue from day one. Look a thow many items have been reported and then taken back. You heard the police did not confiscate the gun- false reporting. It was reported Zimmerman was 250 and Martin 140- false reporting. Old pictures of both persons were used to sway opinion- false perceptions. It was reported that there were no visible injuries- false reporting. It was reported the police did not rope off the crime scene while investigating- false reporting. Gated community- false perceptions I'm sure there are more.

Trust me, I'm a farily liberal guy but I can completely see the complaint about the "liberal media" right now. There was a shooting that people are outraged over and the media is perpetuating the hype rather than reporting the facts in many instances.

couldnt have said it better
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Dave Gray
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« Reply #170 on: April 03, 2012, 05:55:18 pm »

What is liberal or conservative about taking either side of this case?  That's what I mean.

If you want to complain about misreporting of facts, go ahead -- you'll get no argument if the info is indeed untrue.  However, how does that make that a liberal position?  How is the position that Zimmerman should be arrested a liberal viewpoint and that he should not be arrested a conservative viewpoint.

There's no policy or platform attached to this?  At least there wasn't.  I'm sure that politicians on both sides will (and have) used this for their own gain, and that's to be expected, but at its heart, there should be nothing partisan about this.
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Phishfan
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« Reply #171 on: April 03, 2012, 06:00:04 pm »

It doesn't have to really be a liberal or conservative position to be partisan. Partisan just means you support one side or the other. In this case there are kind of three sides. Zimmerman should be in jail right now, Zimmerman should face a grand jury, or Zimmerman should be considered not guilty.

I used the words "liberal media" in quotations because that is a favorite term of others.
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Dave Gray
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« Reply #172 on: April 03, 2012, 06:04:31 pm »

Partisan just means you support one side or the other.

No, it doesn't.  Partisan means associated to a specific party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partisan_(political)

But regardless, my point is the same.

Why have the liberals latched on to the arrest Zimmerman position and the conservatives latched on to the free Zimmerman position?
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Phishfan
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« Reply #173 on: April 03, 2012, 06:20:54 pm »

No, it doesn't.  Partisan means associated to a specific party.

Why have the liberals latched on to the arrest Zimmerman position and the conservatives latched on to the free Zimmerman position?

par·ti·san1    /ˈpɑrtəzən, -sən; Brit. ˌpɑrtəˈzæn/ Show Spelled[pahr-tuh-zuhn, -suhn; Brit. pahr-tuh-zan] Show IPA
noun
1. an adherent or supporter of a person, group, party, or cause, especially a person who shows a biased, emotional allegiance.
2. Military . a member of a party of light or irregular troops engaged in harassing an enemy, especially a member of a guerrilla band engaged in fighting or sabotage against an occupying army

It gets lumped into politics but taking a side on anything makes you partisan. You should know that.

Also, I disagree with your stance that either side is specifically in either camp. I am one of the more socially liberal people here and I don't agree with the arrest Zimmerman position. I think Zimmerman's case needs to go in front of a grand jury. According to the law as written there was no evidence presented to refute his self defense claim.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 06:37:25 pm by Phishfan » Logged
CF DolFan
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« Reply #174 on: April 03, 2012, 07:44:03 pm »

The State Attorney was the first to fight back about made up things. He called out the lies yesterday. The police department has been dragged through the mud. We were talking yesterday about the consequences of this. If things pan out to show that everyone involved did what they were suppose to do can they sue for defamation? I mean ... I can't imagine how much this incident has damaged the police chief's career as well the State Atorney.

Obviously if the evidence shows they covered things up or didn't do their job they have no case but I have to wonder if a jury could find the rally leaders liable?

Just an outside the normal thought and Lord knows this thing has been anything but normal.
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Dave Gray
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« Reply #175 on: April 03, 2012, 11:26:58 pm »

par·ti·san1    /ˈpɑrtəzən, -sən; Brit. ˌpɑrtəˈzæn/ Show Spelled[pahr-tuh-zuhn, -suhn; Brit. pahr-tuh-zan] Show IPA
noun
1. an adherent or supporter of a person, group, party, or cause, especially a person who shows a biased, emotional allegiance.
2. Military . a member of a party of light or irregular troops engaged in harassing an enemy, especially a member of a guerrilla band engaged in fighting or sabotage against an occupying army

It gets lumped into politics but taking a side on anything makes you partisan. You should know that.

Partisan, in this case is an adjective, not a noun. 

It's a partisan issue.  Politically speaking, depending on whether you watch FOX or MSNBC, the coloring of the story is different.

Sure, you may be an outlier in this particular case, but most liberals are on one side, most conservatives on the other....no idea why.  There seems to be no underlying issue or position to support it.
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« Reply #176 on: April 03, 2012, 11:28:29 pm »

How did this become a partisan issue?  WTF...
An unarmed black kid was shot by a person with a valid concealed-carry permit.  The police decided not to prosecute the shooter.

This case never had any hope of not being partisan.  It is a nicely packaged bundle of hyper-partisan issues:

 - child killed by gun violence
 - potential racial profiling by the shooter
 - potential racial profiling by the police
 - potential police coverup
 - criticism of Stand Your Ground laws

 - defense of armed citizens
 - defense of claims of racism
 - defense of law enforcement
 - defense of Stand Your Ground laws
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 11:35:47 pm by Spider-Dan » Logged

Dave Gray
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« Reply #177 on: April 04, 2012, 12:15:28 am »

All of the race politics of this aside (which are certainly valid), I'm simply uncomfortable with a law that allows you to be an armed aggressor, and then claim self-defense if things get bad.

Here's what probably happened:

Zimmerman goes out after a kid he thinks is up to no good.  He is emotionally compromised / frustrated.  Martin is unwilling to cooperate and is disrepectful amid the accusations of Zimmerman.  The two get in a physical altercation.  Zimmerman fires on Martin.
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« Reply #178 on: April 04, 2012, 12:36:12 am »

Dave, you are letting your liberal biases (due to the liberal media) blind you.  Here is what really probably happened:

Exactly what Zimmerman said.

Somehow, I do not foresee that conservatives will continue this stance of "innocent, no trial necessary" for other persons suspected of potentially criminal acts.  What, you say that weed wasn't yours?  If the word of an innocent-until-proven-guilty citizen is good enough to prevent even being arrested for homicide (while you are literally standing with a smoking gun over an unarmed kid you admit killing), surely it must be good enough to avoid an arrest for something as trivial as marijuana.

...right?

Apparently, this incident has codified "I don't know how that got there" as a sturdy legal defense in the eyes of some.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2012, 12:45:34 am by Spider-Dan » Logged

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« Reply #179 on: April 04, 2012, 01:32:17 am »

^^^ This has been a partisan issue from day one. Look a thow many items have been reported and then taken back. You heard the police did not confiscate the gun- false reporting. It was reported Zimmerman was 250 and Martin 140- false reporting. Old pictures of both persons were used to sway opinion- false perceptions. It was reported that there were no visible injuries- false reporting. It was reported the police did not rope off the crime scene while investigating- false reporting. Gated community- false perceptions I'm sure there are more.

Trust me, I'm a farily liberal guy but I can completely see the complaint about the "liberal media" right now. There was a shooting that people are outraged over and the media is perpetuating the hype rather than reporting the facts in many instances.

You forgot to include what is coming out from the right too. Martin flipping off the camera...wrong kid( put out by Stormfront), the hacking of his accounts proving he is a drug dealer...wrong no proof of drug dealing( also done by a member of Stormfront). Martin came around SUV and ambushed Zimmerman...wrong, witnesses saw Martin hit Zimmerman and knock him down...wrong.

Both sides are engaged in it equally for various reasons. Hell I got into it with a member of the Brady Foundation blaming it all on guns, instead of the moron who did not listen to the dispatcher who said do not follow.
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