Blue jays and Marlins blockbuster trade

[raptorsfan29]

Blue jays get

SS Jose Reyes
SP Josh Johnson
SP  Mark Buehrle
C  John Buck
Utilty man Emilio Bonifacio

Marlins get


SS Yunel Escobar
SP Henderson Alvarez
C Jeff Mathis
LHP Justin Nicolino (minor leaguer)
OF Jake Marisnick  (minor leaguer)
RHP Anthony DeSclafani  (minor leaguer)
SS Adeiny Hechavarria (minor leaguer)

There may be more or less in this deal, but from what i heard this is how the trade is.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8629079/jose-reyes-josh-johnson-verge-being-traded-miami-marlins-toronto-blue-jays

As a blue jays fan i am excited for this trade, and the ownership finally made a commitment to putting a contender on the field, and actually spending money.

[Sunstroke]

Two of my favorite Marlins going away (Josh, Emilio)... I am pretty bummed about this trade.

[Landshark]

You have to realize that the majority of the Marlins' money was going to pay for the stadium lease.  This year was not an exception, its the new normal.  The Marlins own their own stadium now and have freed up that money to pay for players.  Unless they go back to Sun Life Stadium (which won't happen unless hell freezes over), then expect the Marlins to be around or over 100 million every year.

Still think this year was the "new normal"?   A leopard doesn't change his spots.The Marlins just screwed over the City of Miami to get that new stadium.  They are nothing but a disgrace to Major League Baseball.

My buddy Ron posted this picture on his Facebook.  He titled it "A salute to the Marlins from the fans that are left"

[TonyB0D]

yankees need to get on the horn and get reyes ASAP

[EDGECRUSHER]

There should be an investigation into this. I am usually not one for quick reactions, but this is ridiculous. They swindled the city of Miami and aren't even pulling the same shit they usually do where they trade talent for prospects. No, this was just a salary dump.

[Thundergod]

Why am I not f**kin surprised...

[MaineDolFan]

This isn't as bad of a trade as everyone seems to think.  I think Marlin fans need to come off the ledge a little bit.  The only real piece you are giving up here that you're going to miss is Josh Johnson.

Jose Reyes is not a bad player.  Everyone is in love with the name brand.  Here is what he is in reality:

A dime a dozen player (for the money he is paid).

Lifetime BA is .291.  In ten years he has hit 92 home runs.  He does not have power.  Last year he hit 11.  Speed?  Sure, he stole 40 bases.  Would anyone like me to list off all of the players last season who hit .280 and stole 30-40 bases last year?  You'd be surprised at the frequency.  He was caught stealing 11 times.  Lifetime OPB of .342, OPS of .782.  Not bad numbers.  Amazing numbers?  No.

Now - tie those numbers into this:  He is owed another 106 million dollars through 2017 with a team option for 2018.  My understanding about the team option is if he is within certain percentages of his career averages in 2017 the team option becomes a mutual player option.  IE - Toronto may be stuck with him until 2018. 

21.2 million per year for a guy who hits .280 per year, drives in under 60, can't hit for power and gets caught stealing one of every ten times he makes an attempt.  Total SB are great (40) but not when your total CS are that high.

He also had 18 errors last season, good for .973 fielding percentage.

21.2 million per season.

By the way ~ he AVERAGES 18 errors per season.  He isn't exactly a wizard at SS.  He is average.  Not bad. 

I'm NOT saying Reyes is a bad player.  I'm saying at 21.2 million dollars I could find any number of short stops who could give me roughly the same production without crippling my payroll for the next five years.

Miami fans:  You have a bit of a log jam now at SS.  Along now with Yunel Escobar, who IS a wizard with the glove, I happen to be in love with Yordy Cabrera.  You probably don't know who he is yet because he was part of the Heath Bell deal.  That's okay, I know enough about him for all of us and I love the kid.  He is fast, plus arm, big kid. 

Oh...did I mention he has plus power?  That's right...a short stop who actually hits for power?  He isn't ready YET, I think he will be up for at least a cup of coffee in 2013. 

While I'm talking about the "kids" ~ just how closely are you Miami fans paying attention to your system?  Because I see a system loaded for bear in 2014.  You just grabbed two of Toronto's best pitching prospects to add to Fernandez and Heaney.  Yelich has all the tools to be an every day starting 1B.  The real prize, in my eyes, is a kid a lot of team have tried to pick pocket from Miami and haven't been able to - Realmuto (he's a catcher).  He really handles a staff well, has a freaking rocket for an arm, hits well (right around .260), has pop and is just a beast behind the plate.

Anyway, I'm not crying too much in my soup for the Marlins.  Not over losing a 21 million dollar SS, a #4 pitcher with an ERA creeping towards 4, a back up catcher and a utility guy you can find at any ball park.  The prize here is Josh Johnson. 

The Blue Jays know it.  I know it.  You all should know it too.  Added by himself, it's a powerful addition.  Added along with a solid #4, a good back up catcher for depth, a nice utility guy and a very good SS (however overpaid) and it puts the Jays in a good position to keep up in a head bashing AL East, which is only getting harder.

Josh Johnson is the piece of the this deal which makes the world go 'round.  If he wasn't part of this deal there ain't no way Toronto is taking on Reyes' contract.  They certainly are not paying 6 million for a back up catcher or 14.5 million for Buehrle.  Added all together and it makes sense.  Johnson is automatically your ace.  Buehrle is probably your 3, however most likely your 4 (only because of match ups).  I don't think Reyes hits lead off for the Jays, he will probably actually hit in the two hole. 

I will admit this doesn't pass the automatic eye ball test.  However most teams, including the Yankees, are trying to win with leaner payrolls versus bulkier ones.  Toronto could take on these contracts and still by mid level because they were so light in the wallet to start with.  Long term I like the Marlins better without Hanley, Reyes, Bell, etc.  I said last year it wouldn't work.  You can't win that way in this league.  The Red Sox built it right, rode a nice wave ~ forgot their way and now are paying the price.  They are getting back to the way teams should be built, from the inside out.  Have a core, sprinkle in some outside talent.

I like this move on both club's part.  Toronto obtained two quality arms (which is really what the deal was about) to help them keep pace in the East.  The Marlins were able to get out from under a few contracts they didn't want any more and obtain flexibility.  I am not sure they are done. 

I am willing to bet you this:  The 2013 Marlins win more games than the 2012 Marlins did.  The 2014 Marlins?  Based on what I am seeing from how they are growing the system?  Watch out.

[Brian Fein]

I am so sick of defending the Marlins.  They have proven me wrong one too many times.  I'm not doing it anymore.  Jeffrey Loria is an asshole and a detriment to baseball, and until he sells the team, I vow to not give a penny to any Marlins-related activities.  I'm done with this team, and I'm disgusted by the way he swindled the city, pretended to give a crap, and then went right back to his standard-issue bullshit.

Maine - I understand what you're saying from a purely-baseball perspective.  Take off the names and look at production, and its similar to the Brandon Marshall trade (which I still support).  But its more about the principle.  Twice in team history has the Marlins sold off the "entire team" and tried to build with prospects.  However, prospects don't bring asses to seats.  The Marlins are always "building for 2 years from now" and never want to win now. 

Besides, EVERY time they build prospects, develop them, and trade them away when they become good.  The only reason they haven't dealt Stanton yet is because he's locked up for peanuts.  Wait till he gets paid, then see how long before he's gone too.  It happens all the time with this team.  Build them up, develop the player, and jettison for prospects.  It happened with Cabrera.  It happened with Hanley.  And now, it happened with JJ.

Moreover, its the stadium charade.  They convinced the city of Miami to fund their stadium, and then duped us all into thinking they were committed to winning.  Bringing in Guillen, Buehrle, Reyes, Bell, chasing Pujols and CJ Wilson and Cespedes made it look like thy had money to spend and were willing to represent the city of Miami proudly and COMPETE.  Now, they've completely UNDONE every move they made last offseason, given away the team's nucleus for what?  A possibility to win in 2 years?  It ALWAYS 2 years away with this team.  When does tomorrow become today?

I'm sick of it.  And it takes a lot to get me to walk away.  I supported them when they were the worst team in baseball.  I supported the Dolphins when they were 1-15.  I supported the Panthers when they couldn't break 28 wins for 4 straight seasons.  But this isn't about winning.  Its about betrayal, and CONTINUED and REPEATED betrayal.  And I'm sick and tired of it.

[Phishfan]

Jeffrey Loria has pissed off two baseball cities in two different countries. I don't think the guy has any desire to build winners.

[Brian Fein]

I don't understand how MLB allowed him to buy the Marlins after what he did to the Expos.  HE should be banished from all sports forever.  Go buy some paintings and leave us alone.

[Brian Fein]

Just read this on Wikipedia.  Sound familiar?

One of Loria's first acts was to reiterate demands for a new park for the Expos to replace Olympic Stadium, of which he bluntly said, "We cannot stay here." He lost a considerable amount of goodwill with Expos fans when the team was not able to reach an agreement for television and English-speaking radio coverage during the 2000 season, as the Expos tried to increase their revenue from broadcast rights. He also sought more public funding for a planned downtown ballpark, Labatt Park.[3] However, the provincial and municipal governments balked at committing more money to the project. Premier Lucien Bouchard said that he couldn't support using taxpayer dollars to build ballparks when the province was being forced to shut down hospitals.

[MaineDolFan]

Here is a major problem with your stance, Brian:

The Marlins were not winning with the players on the field.  So I counter with this:  What would you have him do?  Hold on to a 21 million dollar SS when you can find the same production for under 3 million?  Hold on a closer who clearly couldn't close?  Pay 6 million for a back up catcher?

Your argument would hold water if the Marlins were a viable club the last couple of years.  They haven't been.  I tried to tell you guys that Hanley wasn't the same player, you wouldn't listen.  It is a BLESSING the Dodgers took that nut case off your hands.  I tried to tell you the Reyes signing was a bad move.  You wouldn't listen.  It's a GOOD thing he is gone.  I tried to tell you Bell was a high wire act, a gas can closer.  You would not listen.  He is someone else's headache now.  These are all very good things.

What you lost here is a top flight pitcher.  What you have in the wings are potential top flight pitchers.  You also lost a very solid innings eater.  Not exactly a license to print money.

I would understand the outrage if Miami had knocked on 94 wins last year and made noise.  They sucked from the beginning of the season until the end.  They finished 24 games under .500 and 29 games out of 1st.  What good did any of those players do for you?  2011?  19 games under .500 and 30 games out of 1st.  2010?  2 games under .500 and 17 games out of 1st.

What you're doing is not working.

They tried.  It doesn't make any sense to have a brand new stadium without anyone in it.  How do you put people in it?  You win.

Miami won 69 games in 2012.  I am willing to wager you this: Without Reyes, Hanley, Bell, Marky Mark and the Lefty Bunch, Johnson, etc...Miami will win more games in 2013 than 2012.

The TEAM will be better.  It will be a better product.  Do you want a winning product, or do you want to root for individual players?

[BigDaddyFin]

"If we finished last with you, we can sure as shit finish last without you..."

-Branch Rickey.

[el diablo]

How do the marlins still have fans?

I give Escobar until the all-star break before he blows up the clubhouse.

[Brian Fein]

I hear you, and I agree.  I want the team to be better.  But what happens then?  What's the next chapter?  Its a cycle that has happened three times already.  You don't see other teams trading away their core players seemingly every year at the deadline.

So great the Marlins have tons of young talent!  Hooray!  The Marlins will be great in 2014!  I can't wait.  But in 2015, they will trade away Jacob Turner or Jose Fernandez or whatever good player some team comes asking about.  They will dangle some prospects and the Marlins will bite.  It keeps happening.

Would the Yankees ever trade Jeter or Rivera for some kids?  Would the Red Sox trade Ortiz?  It would be nice to keep a nucleus of core guys that are good player for more than 2-3 seasons.  Right now, that nucleus is Giancarlo Stanton, Logan Morrison, and Ricky Nolasco.  

I just don't know how many times they can keep doing this, planning to win later instead of now.  Especially when later never comes.