Gauging Marino's Career

[Dolphster]

So, this post is more for D4L, but I found the article interesting and a good reminder to myself as well.  This Bleacher Report article was written in 2008 and some of the numbers have changed since then since several of the QBs mentioned have added to their numbers since that time.  But the article still points out some really interesting and meaningful things, especially how Marino essentially carried the team on his shoulders for years since they didn't have much of a running game at all and the defense was inconsistent to say the least.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/83646-the-erroneous-perception-of-dan-marino

[Dave Gray]

Marino was incredible.  You probably had to see him play to really appreciate it.  We won games we had no business of winning due to Shula and Marino....for decades.  We had a terrible D and no running game and still...the dude avoided sacks in a small space and delivered the ball very quickly in a small window.

[Dolphster]

Marino was incredible.  You probably had to see him play to really appreciate it.  We won games we had no business of winning due to Shula and Marino....for decades.  We had a terrible D and no running game and still...the dude avoided sacks in a small space and delivered the ball very quickly in a small window.

For sure.  I was in my senior year of HS when Marino was drafted.  He made games fun to watch even when we were losing.  And of course Shula is a god to me, so nothing more need be said about that man. 

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

We won games we had no business of winning due to Shula and ...for decades.  We had a terrible D and no running game and still..

This part is bullshit.  Shula doesn't get credit for winning with a shitty defense or running game.  It was his direct responsible to have a nonshitty defense and running game.

[Tenshot13]

This part is bullshit.  Shula doesn't get credit for winning with a shitty defense or running game.  It was his direct responsible to have a nonshitty defense and running game.

Save the trolling for the anti-fins section.  Also, can I recommend proof reading before posting?

[Dolphster]

This part is bullshit.  Shula doesn't get credit for winning with a shitty defense or running game.  It was his direct responsible to have a nonshitty defense and running game.

Belichick's record as a Head Coach before Tom Brady was 51 - 65 (or close to it).  Belichick has ridden Brady's coattails and is clearly a shitty coach.  See, I can say silly things too.        I still dig most of what you post, Hoodie, but that one was a big swing and a miss.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Belichick's record as a Head Coach before Tom Brady was 51 - 65 (or close to it).  Belichick has ridden Brady's coattails and is clearly a shitty coach.  See, I can say silly things too.        I still dig most of what you post, Hoodie, but that one was a big swing and a miss.

No, you are missing the point.

Hof coach + hof qb = multiple super bowl wins.

If hof coach + hof qb < sb win, one of them is over rated.

[CF DolFan]

No, you are missing the point.

Hof coach + hof qb = multiple super bowl wins.

If hof coach + hof qb < sb win, one of them is over rated.

Shula the Coach = HOF
Shula the GM/player Personnel = was not very good

bottom line
Hof coach + hof qb - defense - running game = Marino's career

[dolphins4life]

Pre-new direction me:  I don't think any of you, or most people, understand my viewpoint on Marino.  I simply do not think it is fair to compare him to other quarterbacks by Super Bowls.  There are far too many factors in play.  Even in this thread, you all completely leave out one important thing: 

Here are the main things people ignore in the quarterback discussion: 

1) WHEN YOU PLAY FOOTBALL, YOU PLAY AGAINST OPPONENTS.  WHAT THEY DO ALSO DETERMINES WHETHER OR NOT YOU WIN OR LOSE.  Brady has benefited from countless opponents hideous blunders that have left my jaw dropping.

2) You cannot say, quarterback x had so and so.  You need to actually watch the games.

3) Football is a single elimination sport.  Brady has benefited from his teams being able to overcome when he has underperformed in the playoffs.  Marino never had that luxury. 

Post-new direction me:  It's all about the quarterback.  Just as the mainstream media chose to throw flowers at Brady's feet after the Super Bowl, and ignore the real heroes of the game (The Patriot defense), I will hold this belief from now on.

Do I get credit for staying true to my word?

[Tenshot13]

Pre-new direction me:  I don't think any of you, or most people, understand my viewpoint on Marino.  I simply do not think it is fair to compare him to other quarterbacks by Super Bowls.  There are far too many factors in play.  Even in this thread, you all completely leave out one important thing: 

Here are the main things people ignore in the quarterback discussion: 

1) WHEN YOU PLAY FOOTBALL, YOU PLAY AGAINST OPPONENTS.  WHAT THEY DO ALSO DETERMINES WHETHER OR NOT YOU WIN OR LOSE.  Brady has benefited from countless opponents hideous blunders that have left my jaw dropping.

2) You cannot say, quarterback x had so and so.  You need to actually watch the games.

3) Football is a single elimination sport.  Brady has benefited from his teams being able to overcome when he has underperformed in the playoffs.  Marino never had that luxury. 

Post-new direction me:  It's all about the quarterback.  Just as the mainstream media chose to throw flowers at Brady's feet after the Super Bowl, and ignore the real heroes of the game (The Patriot defense), I will hold this belief from now on.

Do I get credit for staying true to my word?

[Phishfan]

Do I get credit for staying true to my word?

When you have admittedly changed once, no.

[dolphins4life]

Marino was my favorite player.  He was the reason I started rooting for the Dolphins.

Pre-new direction me:  I thought Brady's performances after 2004 would show how UNreliable it is to measure quarterbacks by wins.  It has not done so.

Post-new direction me:  Brady's performances after 2004 have shown that the quarterback is responsible for the record of his team.

Edit:

I can't even tell everybody's viewpoint on this board now.  I think you guys just like having fun with me.  That's cool, I dig it.

The article posted doesn't mention Brady or Montana.  Before my new direction, I used to think Marino deserved to be mentioned in their names as one of the greatest to play the game.  Most people rank Marino ahead of the quarterbacks posted in the article.

Tenshot, when you said that my viewpoint was idiotic, did you mean pre-new direction me or post new direction me?  How do you feel about Marino?

Before my new direction, I posted a thread showing how it was unfair to compare quarterbacks by victories after the Patriots-Texans playoff game.  Everybody disagreed with me.  This leads me to another one of my pre-new direction beliefs: 

What people don't understand is that football is a single-elimination sport.  Brady has had many subpar playoff performances, but because of his teammates and his opponents his team has been able to overcome them and win the games anyway.  The usual rebuttal this gets is, "Well, that's just one game out of many."  THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT.  ONE GAME IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WINNING THE SUPER BOWL AND BEING ELIMINATED IN THE PLAYOFFS. 

[Dolphster]

No, you are missing the point.

Hof coach + hof qb = multiple super bowl wins.

If hof coach + hof qb < sb win, one of them is over rated.

Ok, I get what you are trying to say now.  But I still have to respectfully disagree because I think you are oversimplifying the equation too much.  Granted, I am biased because I think Shula walks on water because I was a little kid growing up in South Florida during the glory days of the 70s.  So I know that causes me to give Shula the ultimate free pass in all discussions.  I just think that a HOF QB and HOF Coach can't solely win Super Bowls.  There has to be at least a decent defense to go along with them.  Joe Robbie was one of the cheapest owners in NFL history which left the team trying to create a great roster on a shoestring budget. 

One last thing about Shula, the fact that the won the Super Bowls in the early 70's with a roster that was largely made up of guys who were nobodies at the time, says a lot about his ability to create a team that was much greater than its individual parts.  A lot of those guys are considered great in retrospect, but at the time, nobody found the Fins roster to be particularly outstanding.  Griese/Morrall was a "game manager" and an old man.  The RB trio of Zonk, Mercury, and Kiick were legit stars so they admittedly did carry the team a good bit.  But Warfield was considered over the hill, the offensive line was a bunch of castoffs from other teams that nobody else wanted, and the defense wasn't called the "no name" defense for nothing. 

[Dave Gray]

Shula was an incredible gameday manager.  In terms of the Xs and Os -- he was going to outcoach you.

Also, perhaps this is an excuse, but the NFL used to work a little differently before the salary-cap era.  The draft was bigger, IMO, than it is now.  The Dolphins were perpetually in the latter half of the draft for a long, long time.  Now, there's less of an issue with that, because you don't have to pay guys at the bottom as much, so it kinda works out.

[masterfins]

No, you are missing the point.

Hof coach + hof qb = multiple super bowl wins.

If hof coach + hof qb < sb win, one of them is over rated.

Yeah, but...Miami had to get past a HOF coach, HOF QB, HOF wide receiver, HOF running back, and HOF defensive player to get past the Bills teams (not to mention HOF inclement weather).  However, I agree that Miami should have won one during their tenures.  If the Bills, Jets, or Dolphins could muster a squad to oppose the Patriots like the Bills did against the Dolphins, then they wouldn't have the SB appearances that they have.