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Author Topic: What do you hold in high respect?  (Read 969 times)
Spider-Dan
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« Reply #90 on: August 09, 2018, 06:17:19 pm »

Feelings over facts is tied more to the left than it is the right.
Remind me of that the next time the right is crying about people saying "Happy Holidays," or about having to press 1 for English, or insisting that Christians are the most oppressed group in the country.

The right complains about being offended at least as much as the left.  It's just that when we do it, we are whiny snowflakes, whereas when you do it, you are speaking up for your solemn rights.
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« Reply #91 on: August 09, 2018, 08:01:10 pm »

Remind me of that the next time the right is crying about people saying "Happy Holidays," or about having to press 1 for English, or insisting that Christians are the most oppressed group in the country.

The right complains about being offended at least as much as the left.  It's just that when we do it, we are whiny snowflakes, whereas when you do it, you are speaking up for your solemn rights.
What is the fact that is being overshadowed by feelings in this example?
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #92 on: August 10, 2018, 12:08:48 am »

For starters: well over 99% of the people making federal law in this country are Christian.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 12:12:32 am by Spider-Dan » Logged

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« Reply #93 on: August 10, 2018, 06:37:29 am »

For starters: well over 99% of the people making federal law in this country are Christian.
Is that number arbitrary or factual?  To me it seems "well over 99%" is 100%, meaning your alleged fact is not, it is a feeling you have. Regardless, the U.S. Has the largest Christian population in the world, so it stands to reason that most would be Christian.

EDIT: The actual number is 91%, which is under the 99% you claimed. That's entirely my point, feelings over facts because you feel there are too many Christians in a country with the highest Christian population.

http://www.pewforum.org/2017/01/03/faith-on-the-hill-115/
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 06:45:36 am by Tenshot13 » Logged

Fau Teixeira
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« Reply #94 on: August 10, 2018, 10:20:49 am »

So you say you were called a racist anytime (and you stress anytime!) you criticized any of Obama's policies, yet when asked to name one example, you declare it an impossible task?

The person that makes the positive affirmation is the one with the responsibility to provide evidence to prove it   this is a legit observation
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Fau Teixeira
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« Reply #95 on: August 10, 2018, 10:23:28 am »

i don't even think the 91% is right, i'm sure that may account for a number of cultural christians .. but religiously i would put that number closer to 70%  as you probably have about 20% of the population that is non-believer that claims christianity as a cultural association rather than a belief one.
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« Reply #96 on: August 10, 2018, 10:30:28 am »

i don't even think the 91% is right, i'm sure that may account for a number of cultural christians .. but religiously i would put that number closer to 70%  as you probably have about 20% of the population that is non-believer that claims christianity as a cultural association rather than a belief one.
Let me clarify, 91% is congress.  Population is closer to 70%.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #97 on: August 10, 2018, 11:09:23 am »

To me it seems "well over 99%" is 100% [...]
I would generally be inclined to state that, say, 99.5% would be both "well over 99%" and less than 100%.  Is this a case of "feelings over facts" because you do not recognize decimal points?  Tongue

Quote
The actual number is 91%, which is under the 99% you claimed. That's entirely my point, feelings over facts because you feel there are too many Christians in a country with the highest Christian population.
You are correct, sir!  I inaccurately believed that "over 99%" of federal lawmakers are Christian, when the factually correct statement should be "over 90%."

Now that we have clarified my error, let us discuss the topic in which that error surfaced: do you believe that it is reasonable for a group that comprises over 99% 90% of federal legislators to believe they are oppressed?  Or is that feelings over facts?
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« Reply #98 on: August 10, 2018, 02:02:06 pm »

I would generally be inclined to state that, say, 99.5% would be both "well over 99%" and less than 100%.  Is this a case of "feelings over facts" because you do not recognize decimal points?  Tongue
You are correct, sir!  I inaccurately believed that "over 99%" of federal lawmakers are Christian, when the factually correct statement should be "over 90%."

Now that we have clarified my error, let us discuss the topic in which that error surfaced: do you believe that it is reasonable for a group that comprises over 99% 90% of federal legislators to believe they are oppressed?  Or is that feelings over facts?
To address your little quip in the beginning, 99.5% or any decimal place over 99% but under 100% is not well over Tongue.

Prove to me that over 90% of federal lawmakers believe they are being oppressed and I might be able to answer that question.  I find it hard to believe that all of them think they are being oppressed for their religion.  There are too many sweeping generalizations for everything, right or left, for me to believe that. 

Having said that, I think oppressed is the wrong choice of words for this, in what I believe, is a made up argument for you to try and prove a point, kind of like how republicans think democrats are all socialists now because the lady in NY that won.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #99 on: August 10, 2018, 03:18:07 pm »

Counterpoint:

In the USA, the largest open predjudism is towards Christians.  Look no farther than this board for examples.  No one thing is attacked in here more than Christianity.  There might be more people who hate blacks, Jews, Latinos or even ballet ... but the bottom line is no one is more negative about anything else than the lack of respect for Christians or Christianity.
So Christians - the religious group that controls over 99% 90% of Congress, and the overwhelming majority of government positions in this country - are actually victims of the largest open prejudice in America.  Much more than, say, the Muslims that were subsequently banned by the current leader of our government.  Got it.

"feelings over facts"
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 03:21:52 pm by Spider-Dan » Logged

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« Reply #100 on: August 10, 2018, 03:57:57 pm »


To be completely honest, even with a family chock full of devout Christians (real Christians, not the mail-it-in type), every time I hear a Christian talk about being prejudiced against, two responses pop into mind:

1) Along Spiders line "Wait a minute, you control everything in this country...how could you be prejudiced against?"
and
2) Yeah, how do you like them apples?  (inferring that most Christians seem to be prejudiced against EVERYONE except other Christians)

And to put a cork in this bottle, I'll just say that I would feel a whole lot better about Christianity if they would stop trying to enact laws based on their religious beliefs.

At least until the day come when the government allows me to pick and choose which laws I abide by anyway...


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"There's no such thing as objectivity. We're all just interpreting signals from the universe and trying to make sense of them. Dim, shaky, weak, staticky little signals that only hint at the complexity of a universe that we cannot begin to comprehend."
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« Reply #101 on: August 10, 2018, 04:04:48 pm »

Counterpoint:
So Christians - the religious group that controls over 99% 90% of Congress, and the overwhelming majority of government positions in this country - are actually victims of the largest open prejudice in America.  Much more than, say, the Muslims that were subsequently banned by the current leader of our government.  Got it.

"feelings over facts"
This is very different than what you were initially asking.  The largest OPEN prejudice, yes, I think people think it's okay to bash Christianity, especially on here.  I would put Islam in there too, mostly because it was almost acceptable to bash Islam after 9/11, us vs them and all.  I feel people are more tolerant on that than when 9/11 occurred, but is still a pretty open prejudice.  Essentially, it is socially acceptable to bash Christians (and to an extent, Islam) or white people with little to no repercussions.  

I don't think white people or Christians are oppressed, nor do I think they have the largest prejudice against them.  That can't be possible when white people and Christians make up the majority of this country.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 04:26:59 pm by Tenshot13 » Logged

MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #102 on: August 10, 2018, 04:42:35 pm »

This is very different than what you're asking.  The largest OPEN prejudice, yes, I think people think it's okay to bash Christianity, especially on here.  I would put Islam in there too, mostly because it was almost acceptable to bash Islam after 9/11, us vs them and all.  I feel people are more tolerant on that than when 9/11 occurred, but is still a pretty open prejudice.  Essentially, it is socially acceptable to bash Christians (and to an extent, Islam) or White people with little to no repercussions.  

I don't think white people or Christians are oppressed, nor do I think they have the largest prejudice against them.  That can't be possible when white people and Christians make up the majority of this country.

What do you mean by open prejudice?

Would that include a bank that denied loans to whites but not blacks?

Would that include changing the words of the pledge of allegiance to specifically promote atheism and exclude Christians?

Would that include making Yom Kipper and
Eid al-Fitr a national holiday but make Xmas a normal work day?

Would that include a history of slavery and then segregation against whites?

Would that include colleges invoking policies to limit the number of Christians admitted in favor of Jews? 

Because none of those things happened.  But their converse did.  The problem many white Christians who feel mistreated have is confusing lose of preference with descrimation.  Each time we move closer to equality the person with the advantage loses some advantage and that can feel like discrimination but it is not.  Not allowing prayer in school is discrimination against Christians it ended the discrimination against everyone else. 
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« Reply #103 on: August 10, 2018, 04:53:40 pm »

What do you mean by open prejudice?

Would that include a bank that denied loans to whites but not blacks?

Would that include changing the words of the pledge of allegiance to specifically promote atheism and exclude Christians?

Would that include making Yom Kipper and
Eid al-Fitr a national holiday but make Xmas a normal work day?

Would that include a history of slavery and then segregation against whites?

Would that include colleges invoking policies to limit the number of Christians admitted in favor of Jews? 

Because none of those things happened.  But their converse did.  The problem many white Christians who feel mistreated have is confusing lose of preference with descrimation.  Each time we move closer to equality the person with the advantage loses some advantage and that can feel like discrimination but it is not.  Not allowing prayer in school is discrimination against Christians it ended the discrimination against everyone else. 
I think you are twisting some things, as I was pretty clear on open prejudice.  Open prejudice, like Sarah Jeong against white people.  She is not getting fired or even reprimanded for this (not that I really care, but it makes my point).  Now take the same thing she said and put black people in there and she wouldn't be working there.  That's my point, OPEN prejudice, it's socially acceptable now to say these sorts of things to whites and Christians with no repercussions.  I also stated that I don't think white people or Christians are oppressed.  You can have a prejudice against you and not be oppressed.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 04:58:35 pm by Tenshot13 » Logged

Spider-Dan
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« Reply #104 on: August 10, 2018, 05:33:27 pm »

So let's talk about what open prejudice entails.

Are sitting members of Congress saying that Christians should not be legally allowed to marry? No.
Are sitting state legislators arguing over which bathrooms Christians should be permitted to use? No.
Are major-party Presidential candidates saying that Christians are unfit to serve as a judge due to their irrevocable pro-Christ bias? No.
Are activist groups that protest government brutality against Christian demographic minorities denounced on primetime cable TV as bigoted extremists? No.
Are Presidents openly touting a ban on Christians from entering the country? No.
Most importantly, is the government enacting any of the above through force of law? No.
But yeah, somebody did say "Happy Holidays" on national television, so...

Here's the thing: Christians only face "open prejudice" in this country for the most ridiculous interpretations of that term.  For example:

- two homosexuals want to get married
- Christians want to make/keep that illegal
- others criticize Christians for that intolerant stance

In the eyes of the professional victim right, the "open prejudice" in this scenario is NOT that homosexuals can't get married, but that other people have the audacity to criticize Christians' attempts to prevent them from doing so.  And it's much the same with people attacking Christians by defiantly insisting on recognizing the existence of other cultures and saying "Happy Holidays" at year's end, instead of giving Christ the proper glory he and he alone deserves by saying, "Merry Christmas."

I won't claim credit for coining this, but god knows it applies here: "When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 05:41:16 pm by Spider-Dan » Logged

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