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Author Topic: Does it even matter who QBs this team?  (Read 1839 times)
CF DolFan
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« on: August 19, 2019, 06:16:19 pm »

This was being discussed on the radio today and the consensus is no. When you have an up and comer and a 15 year journeyman vet trying to out play each other ... and not doing it... then you do not have a"franchise qb".  It would have been nice to see the new guy come in and impress but he hasn't.  There is still time but history says Rosen will be a back-up for years to come. Not bad work if you can get it but it's not looking like he is the guy to lead this team.
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2019, 06:41:14 pm »

Don’t overthink it.  You have two choices.

A. 15 year journeyman that has zero chance at developing into your franchise QB.

B. Second year player that is struggling but has plenty of raw talent. Not progressing as well as he should and is on trajectory to become a journeyman himself, rather than a franchise QB, however there is a small chance he will develop into a franchise QB.

You have to go with B.  B gives ya chance.
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Phishfan
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« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2019, 06:44:21 pm »

You don't have to go with B unless he outplays A.
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2019, 07:04:22 pm »

You don't have to go with B unless he outplays A.

No, you don’t go with A unless he clearly outplays B.  If it is a tie or close you go with B.
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masterfins
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« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2019, 12:21:02 am »

If you want to win a game, then the answer is clearly Fitzpatrick - as a quality veteran he gives you the better chance to win games.  However, if you are looking for a long term solution at QB then you start Rosen every week and let him sink or swim.  As an owner it's a mixture of the two, because you can't alienate your total fan base by potentially winning a mere 3 games or less.  I would expect to see what happened in Tampa last year, Fitz plays about six games winning 3 or 4, then they move on to Rosen for the balance of the season;or until he gets crushed due to a lack of an O-line and the inability to unload the ball quick enough, then it's back to Fitz for the last 2 games.
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Pappy13
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« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2019, 10:08:44 am »

This was being discussed on the radio today and the consensus is no. When you have an up and comer and a 15 year journeyman vet trying to out play each other ... and not doing it... then you do not have a"franchise qb".  It would have been nice to see the new guy come in and impress but he hasn't.  There is still time but history says Rosen will be a back-up for years to come. Not bad work if you can get it but it's not looking like he is the guy to lead this team.
To answer your question, probably not, but that's not a knock on the QB's. The offensive line is what it is, till you fix that issue it doesn't matter who your QB is.

But if you are trying to evaluate the QB's play, then in my opinion the 2 preseason games have been an overall positive for Rosen. He's made some bad throws but he's also had a lot of good ones. No QB goes without making a mistake once in a while especially one who's been with the team a total of 2 preaseason games. In my opinion Rosen has played well enough to start the season and I was not expecting that at all. I was expecting that the 14 year vet would outplay him by a good margin in preseason and would start the year and that Rosen would come off the bench at some point during the year. Now you can say the reason is that the 14 year veteran has underperformed, but I don't see it that way. I see an absolutely horrible offensive line that is preventing anyone from establishing any offense including the 14 yr vet. Rosen has done as well or better and if Fitz can't make anything out of this offense then why would you expect Rosen to be able to? Hoodie is right, if it doesn't matter then start Rosen. I can't believe I'm saying that actually but at this point there's no other choice.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2019, 10:14:53 am by Pappy13 » Logged

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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2019, 10:11:18 am »

If you want to win a game, then the answer is clearly Fitzpatrick - as a quality veteran he gives you the better chance to win games.  However, if you are looking for a long term solution at QB then you start Rosen every week and let him sink or swim.  As an owner it's a mixture of the two, because you can't alienate your total fan base by potentially winning a mere 3 games or less.  I would expect to see what happened in Tampa last year, Fitz plays about six games winning 3 or 4, then they move on to Rosen for the balance of the season;or until he gets crushed due to a lack of an O-line and the inability to unload the ball quick enough, then it's back to Fitz for the last 2 games.

What exactly does winning some games with Fitz get you?

If Rosen goes 3-13 you have a top QB in 2020 draft.

if Rosen starts the season 2-6 and ends the season 8-8 you have a QB that is growing use the mid teen pick on another position.

If Fitz goes 8-8 you neither have a qb for next year nor a draft pick to get one of the top echelon.  

Rosen shouldn’t be competing with Fitz but the class of 2020.  Straight up win enough games to drop the draft pick out of the top 15 and when the Dolphins draft Rosen is their best available option, lose enough to have a top pick and a draftee is best available option.
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masterfins
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« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2019, 01:21:10 pm »

What exactly does winning some games with Fitz get you?

If Rosen goes 3-13 you have a top QB in 2020 draft.

if Rosen starts the season 2-6 and ends the season 8-8 you have a QB that is growing use the mid teen pick on another position.

If Fitz goes 8-8 you neither have a qb for next year nor a draft pick to get one of the top echelon.  

Rosen shouldn’t be competing with Fitz but the class of 2020.  Straight up win enough games to drop the draft pick out of the top 15 and when the Dolphins draft Rosen is their best available option, lose enough to have a top pick and a draftee is best available option.

Playing Fitz and winning a handful of games will appease some of the fans, as opposed to going 1-15.

I don't expect there is anyway Miami goes 8-8 this year with their offensive line.

This really is a no win situation for Rosen, unless he miraculously carries the team to the playoffs.  He's playing behind a crappy offensive line, so really isn't going to do well, so Miami will have to draft a QB in the first round, and Rosen will be gone.

Not to mention last night I bet two guys $20/each that Miami would finish ahead of Buffalo in the standings.
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BuccaneerBrad
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« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2019, 09:48:08 pm »

Not to mention last night I bet two guys $20/each that Miami would finish ahead of Buffalo in the standings.

With the way your offensive line is playing, you will lose that bet.   
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2019, 11:36:57 pm »

I agree with Hoodie.  Unless Fitz is playing lights out, start Rosen... at least for long enough to see what you have.
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EDGECRUSHER
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« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2019, 12:56:21 pm »

What exactly does winning some games with Fitz get you?

If Rosen goes 3-13 you have a top QB in 2020 draft.

if Rosen starts the season 2-6 and ends the season 8-8 you have a QB that is growing use the mid teen pick on another position.

If Fitz goes 8-8 you neither have a qb for next year nor a draft pick to get one of the top echelon.  

Rosen shouldn’t be competing with Fitz but the class of 2020.  Straight up win enough games to drop the draft pick out of the top 15 and when the Dolphins draft Rosen is their best available option, lose enough to have a top pick and a draftee is best available option.

Exactly, I still don't understand the people who think winning games with Fitzpatrick means anything. This whole season is about what players can contribute in the future, namely is Rosen our guy or are we drafting a QB in 2020? The nightmare scenario is Fitz goes on one of his 6 game tears and we finish 6-10 with Rosen only starting 5 games or so, not enough to truly evaluate him.

He should be starting Week 1 and if he is so terrible that he needs to be replaced by a Journeymen then we have our answer, although I'm still fearful of that bearded asshole ending the year on a fluke 4 game winning streak.
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dolphins4life
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« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2019, 01:41:19 pm »

This does hold some merit.

Football is by it's nature a team game. 

When your quarterback plays badly, you can still win the game.
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« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2019, 02:06:37 pm »

If the Dolphins are serious about rebuilding into a championship team, Rosen starts week 1.  There is no upside with starting Fitzpatrick unless you honestly believe he can lead us to a division title.  Starting Fitzpatrick to go 6-10 delays the rebuilding another season.  Sink or swim with Rosen.

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masterfins
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« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2019, 03:10:23 pm »

I think there is an advantage to starting Rosen several games into the season, instead of week #1.  The starts to seasons are always a little out of whack due to new players, and them getting use to working around players that have been on the team for a couple years - preseasons aren't what they used to be, teams don't really get as much full speed, full contact like decades ago.  Secondly, once again the Dolphins have all new coaches and coordinators on staff, so even veteran dolphins players are getting use to the new schemes.  So my point is that if you let the rest of the team settle in to some sort of rhythm over the first three games it would give Rosen a more stable structure to come off the bench and in to start games.  Ten games is plenty to evaluate if Rosen is any better than he was last year.
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BuccaneerBrad
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« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2019, 03:20:46 pm »

The starts to seasons are always a little out of whack due to new players, and them getting use to working around players that have been on the team for a couple years - preseasons aren't what they used to be, teams don't really get as much full speed, full contact like decades ago. 

You have the new CBA signed in 2011 to thank for that.   Thankfully it expires soon.
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