Grim statistics about Covid

[Fau Teixeira]

https://www.independent.co.uk/world/covid19-china-mishandle-pandemic-leaked-documents-b1764276.html

Hmmm, it's almost like someone here predicted this....

china's reporting 4,634 deaths and according to this report, lets even triple that, they'd be sitting at what .. 13000 deaths? in a country 3 times the population of the US ?

wow .. it's shocking to me that we're pointing at china fudging numbers between 83 and 175 deaths in one case or between 2400 and 5600 cases in another and somehow implying "a-ha" when we have almost 275000 deaths

[Tenshot13]

china's reporting 4,634 deaths and according to this report, lets even triple that, they'd be sitting at what .. 13000 deaths? in a country 3 times the population of the US ?

wow .. it's shocking to me that we're pointing at china fudging numbers between 83 and 175 deaths in one case or between 2400 and 5600 cases in another and somehow implying "a-ha" when we have almost 275000 deaths

So you're saying China's numbers are mostly accurate then?

[Sunstroke]

I find it equal parts depressing and ridiculous that people are taking time to nitpick the accuracy of another country's COVID statistics instead of concerning yourself with the 275,000 Americans already buried...

   

[Tenshot13]

I find it equal parts depressing and ridiculous that people are taking time to nitpick the accuracy of another country's COVID statistics instead of concerning yourself with the 275,000 Americans already buried...

   

It's about perspective, I find it very hard to believe that the two countries more populated than the US have significantly lower numbers.  Then, people try to compare those inaccurate numbers to our numbers. 

[Sunstroke]

It's about perspective, I find it very hard to believe that the two countries more populated than the US have significantly lower numbers. 

Let me check with those 275,000 to see how they feel about your beliefs...

[Tenshot13]

Let me check with those 275,000 to see how they feel about your beliefs...

You understand I wasn't the one who started comparing China's numbers to the US and that's how this whole thread started right?

[Fau Teixeira]

It's about perspective, I find it very hard to believe that the two countries more populated than the US have significantly lower numbers.  Then, people try to compare those inaccurate numbers to our numbers.  

First off, if "mostly accurate" is your definition for a 300% difference than .. sure i guess .. triple the amount is mostly accurate.

To your point above. Why is it hard to believe?
We have by far the most incompetent, ineffective leadership on the planet.
It would be incredibly difficult to find a single worse president/prime minister/dear leader with less skill, vision or ability than Trump around the entire globe.

We've had by far the worst time with Covid out of the entire world.

Is it so hard to believe that an authoritarian country like China that values the whole more than individuality could have a much more effective response to a pandemic that can only be tackled as a community and doesn't give a shit about individuality or personal freedom?

[Tenshot13]

First off, if "mostly accurate" is your definition for a 300% difference than .. sure i guess .. triple the amount is mostly accurate.

To your point above. Why is it hard to believe?
We have by far the most incompetent, ineffective leadership on the planet.
It would be incredibly difficult to find a single worse president/prime minister/dear leader with less skill, vision or ability than Trump around the entire globe.

We've had by far the worst time with Covid out of the entire world.

Is it so hard to believe that an authoritarian country like China that values the whole more than individuality could have a much more effective response to a pandemic that can only be tackled as a community and doesn't give a shit about individuality or personal freedom?

Most of the things you posted above are your own shitty opinion.  The last part, yes I find hard to believe even with the most draconian of measures.

[fyo]

It's about perspective, I find it very hard to believe that the two countries more populated than the US have significantly lower numbers.  Then, people try to compare those inaccurate numbers to our numbers.  

MANY of countries have fewer deaths per million inhabitants than the US. In fact, all but a handful of countries with a population of over a million have seen fewer deaths (relatively) than the US.

Are you disputing the accuracy of the numbers from all those countries? Or just China's and India's? In the latter case, who cares? That doesn't change the situation on the ground, nor does it change the fact that pretty much every aspect of it has been mismanaged from day 1.

[Tenshot13]

MANY of countries have fewer deaths per million inhabitants than the US. In fact, all but a handful of countries with a population of over a million have seen fewer deaths (relatively) than the US.

Are you disputing the accuracy of the numbers from all those countries? Or just China's and India's? In the latter case, who cares? That doesn't change the situation on the ground, nor does it change the fact that pretty much every aspect of it has been mismanaged from day 1.

It's like you guys are just refusing to acknowledge how this thread started.

Number of new infections in the USA yesterday:  124,390
Total number of infections n China : 86,212

This week about twice as many Americans will die of Covid than the total death rate of China.

This is what I am arguing against, comparing our statistics to China's when they have proven time and time again to be corrupt and inaccurate.  If you guys want to keep moving your goalpost on what I should or should not be talking about be my guest.  I'm not going to address it further.

[fyo]

Science has been back and forth on a few of those. It has also shown that if you contract covid you are 99.5 % chance of surviving. In fact the CDC and WHO show that under the age of 69 you have twice as much of a chance from dying of other things.

Whatever the specific numbers are, we do know for a fact what the situation would look like if we did nothing. Just look at Northern Italy early on, to use a Western example. The hospitals were absolutely swamped, people were dying in the waiting rooms and hallways, nowhere to stack the dead. Even in the most fervent freedom-loving, anti-government state in the US, that would result in the people DEMANDING action. Even with the actions Italy did take (complete and utter lockdown) 0.1% of the population died. To date, 0.2% of the population of Lombardy (where Milan is) have died, the vast majority during the spring outbreak. The US is at 0.08%. Image twice that over a period of a few weeks instead!

The difference between Italy and the US is that one was caught by surprise, the other chose a deliberate course of (non-)action - and people like you BITCHING about what action has been taken, well, there's no question what things would look like if you got your way. There's plenty of blood on your hands as is.

Treatment is better today, but what happens when hospitals get swamped is that it doesn't matter much anymore, since the majority won't get any treatment, let alone the elevated level of care that leads to the current "low" mortality rates.

[Dave Gray]

Back to the subject of China:

I have some experience with China.  I've been there and my family lived there for a long time.

Firstly, I wouldn't put it past them to manipulate data.  However, in this case, it doesn't surprise me one bit that they'd be uniquely fit to handle a crisis like this. 
People wears masks in China.  Normally...like, on the bus and walking the streets, people are wearing masks in big crowds, in general.  They just have a different view of that kind of stuff already, so wearing a mask when there's an outbreak is a no-brainer.

But also, there really isn't any amount of not complying with their government.  If they mandate a mask in public, believe it -- you're wearing one.  If not, they scoop you up off the street and take you God knows where to be tortured or killed or whatever.  If there is a lockdown, you will not be breaking it.  Trust.

They also have state sanctioned TV, so there is no dissent or alternate opinion.  There are no deniers or anti-maskers.

That's not to say that it's a better way of life, but it's a more effective way of stomping out a pandemic that requires 100% cooperation.

[Spider-Dan]

If you want to discount the numbers coming out of China (or Russia), I can't blame you: they are authoritarian dictatorships, and even if their numbers are accurate, they are being achieved with measures that even the most outspoken anti-COVID posters here would consider excessive (e.g. the gov't sealing people in their homes with metal bars, or requiring people to quarantine in place at work while preventing them from going home to their families).

But this doesn't explain India.

India is not a communist dictatorship; they're a pretty standard liberal democracy.  India has over four times the population of the US, in less than one-third of the land area, for a population density that's over twelve times higher than the US.  Our GDP is EIGHT times more than India's.

And yet India has less than half as many COVID deaths as the US.
How is that even possible?

The leadership in our country has been criminally incompetent.

[Tenshot13]

If you want to discount the numbers coming out of China (or Russia), I can't blame you: they are authoritarian dictatorships, and even if their numbers are accurate, they are being achieved with measures that even the most outspoken anti-COVID posters here would consider excessive (e.g. the gov't sealing people in their homes with metal bars, or requiring people to quarantine in place at work while preventing them from going home to their families).

But this doesn't explain India.

India is not a communist dictatorship; they're a pretty standard liberal democracy.  India has over four times the population of the US, in less than one-third of the land area, for a population density that's over twelve times higher than the US.  Our GDP is EIGHT times more than India's.

And yet India has less than half as many COVID deaths as the US.
How is that even possible?

The leadership in our country has been criminally incompetent.

India's low death rate has nothing to do with leadership.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blogs/seeing-the-invisible/explaining-indias-extraordinarily-low-death-rate-from-covid-19/

That's just the first one I came across, there are many more articles explaining why.

[Dave Gray]

Do you think it's fair to say that it has NOTHING to do with leadership?

I can understanding thinking it's a combination of factors.  But surely, you must recognize that we are doing very, very little to combat this virus and there isn't a consistent narrative about how to work together to do anything about it.  In fact, there is widespread denial, refusal of safety compliance, etc.  That is pretty uniquely a US problem.