Going out to eat post COVID

[masterfins]

I can't believe no one has asked so here it goes,  what reasoning is there that grocery store workers don't qualify for unemployment?

Everyone else considered the source making the statement and didn't want to bite. lol

[masterfins]

How low do you think the minimum wage would need to be in order to permanently prevent those jobs from being replaced by automated kiosks?

You need to ask a cost accountant that question.  Obviously many large corporations have factored in Employee Wages, Employer Fica Taxes, Workers' Compensation Insurance, Disability Insurance, employee health insurance, employee vacation & sick time etc. as compared to cost of equipment, maintenance of equipment, possible theft due to self check-out, etc. AND found that it would be more profitable to put in self-checkout kiosks.

Really not much different that installing robots in auto plants to replace manufacturing jobs once done by humans.

[Dolphster]

I was in grad school way back in the early 90's.  Even back then in many of my MBA classes there was talk about automation taking over the jobs of people in specific occupations.  So this is not a new concept.  Even though it ruffles some people's feathers, the fact of the matter is that the goal of business is to maximize profit.  Especially publicly held businesses.  The CEO and Board of any large company that is not making every effort to maximize profit is going to be run out of town pretty quickly by the stockholders and there are literally hundreds of case studies of businesses where that is exactly what has happened.  The reason that automation (self serve kiosks) has not already become more commonplace in low paying jobs like fast food, grocery stores, etc is for decades, the minimum wage has remained pretty low.  The extent of the utilization of automation to replace jobs is a simple mathematical equation.  When the costs of human personnel (not just pay but any benefits, etc) exceeds the cost of replacing humans with automation (including maintenance, etc of automation) by a certain percentage, then the human personnel in those types of businesses will go away.   So the rapid escalation of the minimum wage is actually just a race to the elimination of those jobs.  See the auto industry in Detroit as a shining example of this although those weren't minimum wage jobs.  Why do you think all those high paying union jobs on the assembly line went away and production facilities were moved offshore?  Because the workers were paid less and automation was maximized to eliminate the need for a large number of humans on the assembly line. 

But getting back to the topic of minimum wage jobs, those types of jobs were never meant for adults in the first place.  Minimum wage jobs were for high school kids, older people who either couldn't retire financially just on social security or those who just wanted something to do with all their spare time in retirement and enjoyed engagement with other people on a daily basis, OR adults who were looking for a second income in addition to their regular job as a way to make ends meet.  If you are an adult and trying to provide for a family (or even just yourself) and you are working in a minimum wage type of job to do so, you have officially failed at life and I don't feel very sorry for your situation because you have clearly made terrible life decisions.   

[dolphins4life]

I don’t know if I would go that extreme, but yes minimum wage jobs were not meant to support families or even oneself.  The entitlement mentality in this country is that everybody feels they should be able to have as many kids as they want and make other people pay for it

[dolphins4life]

Today I was scheduled 12 to 6.  They asked me to stay until eight because they are short.  This is the second Saturday in a row they asked me to stay late

[ArtieChokePhin]

Today I was scheduled 12 to 6.  They asked me to stay until eight because they are short.  This is the second Saturday in a row they asked me to stay late

More money for you

[Dave Gray]

I don’t know if I would go that extreme, but yes minimum wage jobs were not meant to support families or even oneself.  The entitlement mentality in this country is that everybody feels they should be able to have as many kids as they want and make other people pay for it

You're such a sucker, dude.

You're getting fucked in a shit job and making excuses for your boss.  Wake up.

[Spider-Dan]

I don't understand why so many people are super invested in ensuring that more profit goes to McDonald's owners instead of their employees... especially when the gap between the minimum wage and a living wage is made up by you, the taxpayer.

When you say, "People shouldn't be able to provide for their family with a minimum wage job," you are necessarily saying one of two things:

a) Their family should be homeless and starving
b) We should subsidize the profits of the business owner by providing assistance to their family (so they are not homeless and starving)

Every dollar in profit that is not being pad in wages, but is being paid in safety net assistance, is money that is coming out of YOUR pocket to prop up the profit of business owners.  Welfare for the poor is paid for by the middle class so the rich can have a greater profit margin.

This is why we have a wealth inequality problem in this country.

[dolphins4life]

I don't understand why so many people are super invested in ensuring that more profit goes to McDonald's owners instead of their employees... especially when the gap between the minimum wage and a living wage is made up by you, the taxpayer.

When you say, "People shouldn't be able to provide for their family with a minimum wage job," you are necessarily saying one of two things:

a) Their family should be homeless and starving
b) We should subsidize the profits of the business owner by providing assistance to their family (so they are not homeless and starving)

Every dollar in profit that is not being pad in wages, but is being paid in safety net assistance, is money that is coming out of YOUR pocket to prop up the profit of business owners.  Welfare for the poor is paid for by the middle class so the rich can have a greater profit margin.

This is why we have a wealth inequality problem in this country.

Wrong.  We are saying don’t have children if you cannot afford them.  They say you should save up three months of rent before you move out of your parents’ house.  Well you should save up a year’s worth of expenses before you have a child.  If you have a minimum wage job and are barely scraping by you should not be having children

[Dolphster]

When you say, "People shouldn't be able to provide for their family with a minimum wage job," you are necessarily saying one of two things:

a) Their family should be homeless and starving
b) We should subsidize the profits of the business owner by providing assistance to their family (so they are not homeless and starving)

I can only speak for myself, but I'm not saying either of those things.  I'm saying if you are in a minimum wage job there is no way in fucking hell that you should be having a family. 

[Spider-Dan]

I'm saying if you are in a minimum wage job there is no way in fucking hell that you should be having a family.

I'll do you one better and say that nobody should be taking a job that provides poverty-level income in the first place.  It's a very inefficient use of time!

However, in the real world, there are people who do have families to support, and they can't exactly go back in time and undo those choices.  We can sit and throw stones about how bad their decision making was, but at the end of the day, mouths still need to be fed.  So what should they do about it going forward?  I don't think poor people should just make more money is very useful advice, but it seems like your advice so far has been "Go find a better paying job."

So unless you're willing to follow through on your criticism of their decision-making and insist that they (and importantly: their children) don't deserve any help, it means that either their employer pays them a living wage, or their employer pays them less than that, puts the remainder in their own pocket, and the taxpayer makes up the difference.

Rugged personal responsibility and pro-business capitalism are not compatible with an unwillingness to watch homeless children starve.

[ArtieChokePhin]

I'll do you one better and say that nobody should be taking a job that provides poverty-level income in the first place.  It's a very inefficient use of time!

However, in the real world, there are people who do have families to support, and they can't exactly go back in time and undo those choices.  We can sit and throw stones about how bad their decision making was, but at the end of the day, mouths still need to be fed.  So what should they do about it going forward?  I don't think poor people should just make more money is very useful advice, but it seems like your advice so far has been "Go find a better paying job."

So unless you're willing to follow through on your criticism of their decision-making and insist that they (and importantly: their children) don't deserve any help, it means that either their employer pays them a living wage, or their employer pays them less than that, puts the remainder in their own pocket, and the taxpayer makes up the difference.

Rugged personal responsibility and pro-business capitalism are not compatible with an unwillingness to watch homeless children starve.

Why should we help people because they are stupid and make bad decisions?  The current system enables them to continue making bad decisions.  OK, the government is taking care of all our needs.  Let's have another kid so we can get more money!!

[dolphins4life]

Why should we help people because they are stupid and make bad decisions?  The current system enables them to continue making bad decisions.  OK, the government is taking care of all our needs.  Let's have another kid so we can get more money!!

  This is why I switched parties.  Couldn't be more true. 

[Fau Teixeira]

Why should we help people because they are stupid and make bad decisions?  The current system enables them to continue making bad decisions.  OK, the government is taking care of all our needs.  Let's have another kid so we can get more money!!

If parents are unable to provide for their children, should these children starve? Is that an outcome you're comfortable with in the united states?

[dolphins4life]

If parents are unable to provide for their children, should these children starve? Is that an outcome you're comfortable with in the united states?

Remember the put me in charge thread?  That's what we need.