Dolphins Coaches

[pondwater]

Every team has limited resources (draft picks and salary cap money) with which to improve itself.  If you go thinking you need an exceptional offensive line to win a Super Bowl and you pour resources into attaining such an offensive line at the expense of allocating resources toward areas of the team that actually are strongly related to winning, you're less likely to win a Super Bowl than if you allocated your resources as a function of what predicts winning.

The Jacksonville Jaguars just paid their offensive linemen more than any other team in the league in 2021 ($51M+) and finished 3-14 on the season, with the third-worst passer rating in the league.  Clearly their exorbitant expenditure of resources on offensive linemen didn't get them anywhere near the promised land, nor did it extract anything special from Trevor Lawrence.  The Cincinnati Bengals on the other hand spent about half that much on their offensive line ($25.6M) and came within roughly 50 yards of a Super Bowl win with arguably the best QB in the league in 2021.

If you want the Dolphins to win a Super Bowl, you'd better hope Chris Grier and company are thinking along these lines, as opposed to making stupid mistakes with their limited resources.

I wasn't aware that"Dolphins Coaches" that we're hiring to fix the OL had any correlation to the limited resources (draft picks and salary cap money) to which your argument is based. Nor does it have anything to with your "predictors of winning" nonsense you keep repeating over and over.

From the looks of it, they're simply trying to fix a problem area that the Dolphins have had for a long time. Now answer the question. Is better OL play and QB protection a good or bad thing? It's a simple question.

[Dolfanalyst]

I wasn't aware that"Dolphins Coaches" that we're hiring to fix the OL had any correlation to the limited resources (draft picks and salary cap money) to which your argument is based. Nor does it have anything to with your "predictors of winning" nonsense you keep repeating over and over.

From the looks of it, they're simply trying to fix a problem area that the Dolphins have had for a long time. Now answer the question. Is better OL play and QB protection a good or bad thing? It's a simple question.

Take a hike pal.  I don't continue conversations with people who speak to me in that manner.

[EDGECRUSHER]

If we want to get better, we need to improve our areas of weakness and nothing is more glaring than our O-Line. Not impossible but very hard to establish a run game like our new coach wants to with our O-Line. Improve the line and the run game gets improved with it as should the passing game as long as Tua has functional humans to throw the ball to. Right now, he has 2 if we don't let Gesicki walk.

Also, Burrow hurt his knee again but won't require surgery like he did last year. His O-Line is killing him and our O-Line got Tua's ribs broken already. So, it isnt just about can you overcome a bad line, can your QB survive one?

[Spider-Dan]

Even if we agree just for the sake of argument that Mahomes played better than Burrow in those games, we'd still be functioning within the realm of single games (two of them), where virtually anything can explain an outcome while possibly remaining a weak predictor of winning overall in the NFL.

I have no problem with the argument that we should not use single-game samples as indicative of anything worth measuring.  But that premise is not compatible with pointing at the game two days ago as "proof" that OL play is overrated as a factor in team success.

[Dolfanalyst]

I have no problem with the argument that we should not use single-game samples as indicative of anything worth measuring.  But that premise is not compatible with pointing at the game two days ago as "proof" that OL play is overrated as a factor in team success.

The point was merely that the Bengals' offensive line was poor throughout the year and wasn't any better Sunday, thus underscoring that their offensive line play was dispositionally (not situationally) poor, though they played well overall in 2021 regardless.  Had their offensive line played poorly Sunday after playing well all year, I certainly wouldn't have used the game to support the idea that offensive line play is relatively unimportant with regard to winning at a high level.

[Tenshot13]

Take a hike pal.  I don't continue conversations with people who speak to me in that manner.

He must be angry, he's #2 on the scale.

[pondwater]

He must be angry,
he's #2 on the scale.

He just doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. Yeah, let's NOT fix the OL. Seems like a rational plan, right?

[Dolphster]

Take a hike pal.  I don't continue conversations with people who speak to me in that manner.

Don't you just hate it when people see through your nonsense and all you have to counter with is righteous indignation?   I think everyone here has seen by now that you don't know very much about football so the best way to save face would just be to hop on your tricycle and peddle on down the sidewalk to another neighborhood where people are dumb enough to buy into meaningless analytics which are spun to "prove" false claims.   

[pondwater]

Just noticed this on social media. The Dolphins are expected to hire longtime NFL offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell as quarterbacks coach/pass game coordinator

[Dolfanalyst]

think everyone here has seen by now that you don't know very much about football...

Wrong.  I've been told by the person running the forum to "keep posting -- I enjoy your insight."

I don't need anyone's validation to believe what I believe and post it, but you need to know you're wrong in grandiosely speaking for "everyone here."  When you have to summon "everyone here" in support of what you're saying, you're revealing you're on weak ground and need some sort of mythical buttressing you can't possibly obtain.  Nobody will ever get everybody on a message board to agree about any one thing, but somehow you have!

I have a great family and a successful career and I'm surrounded by love and happiness in my life, and I wish for nothing but the best for you and everyone else here in that regard as well.  I'll keep posting whatever I want as long as it's within the forum rules.  If that doesn't work for you for whatever reason then I'd recommend you go somewhere else.

[Dolfanalyst]

He just doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. Yeah, let's NOT fix the OL. Seems like a rational plan, right?

Strawman argument.  If you read the posts I've made recently here you'll see I'm simply recommending that the team doesn't devote exorbitant resources to the attempt to attain an exceptional offensive line, because it's clear one isn't needed to win a Super Bowl, and that attempt may detract from the team's ability to devote resources to areas that actually are strongly related to Super Bowl-level play.

Once again, the Jaguars just spent more than any team in the league on offensive linemen and finished 3-14, while the Bengals spent half that much on offensive linemen, to the tune of the second-worst pass protection in the league in 2021 (barely above the Dolphins in that regard), and came within 50 yards of winning the Super Bowl.

You don't need an exceptional offensive line to play at a Super Bowl level.  What you do need however is exceptional play in other areas, and so that's where you should devote the bulk of your resources.

[EDGECRUSHER]

Strawman argument.  If you read the posts I've made recently here you'll see I'm simply recommending that the team doesn't devote exorbitant resources to the attempt to attain an exceptional offensive line, because it's clear one isn't needed to win a Super Bowl, and that attempt may detract from the team's ability to devote resources to areas that actually are strongly related to Super Bowl-level play.

Once again, the Jaguars just spent more than any team in the league on offensive linemen and finished 3-14, while the Bengals spent half that much on offensive linemen, to the tune of the second-worst pass protection in the league in 2021 (barely above the Dolphins in that regard), and came within 50 yards of winning the Super Bowl.

You don't need an exceptional offensive line to play at a Super Bowl level.  What you do need however is exceptional play in other areas, and so that's where you should devote the bulk of your resources.

We can't have exceptional play in other areas without a better O-Line. Tua is throwing the ball 3 yards because he doesn't have the time, it's a minor miracle Waddle had any catches this year since he was the primary target almost the whole game. Our RBs get tackled as soon as they touch the ball. I know the point you are trying to make and we shouldn't cut players just to make salary cap room for the O-Line, but it is the #1 offseason priority by far and it has to be treated as such. I don't think Tua can thrive with the line we have right now, not many QBs can aside from the MVPs and Future MVPs like Mahomes and Burrow.

[Dolfanalyst]

We can't have exceptional play in other areas without a better O-Line. Tua is throwing the ball 3 yards because he doesn't have the time, it's a minor miracle Waddle had any catches this year since he was the primary target almost the whole game. Our RBs get tackled as soon as they touch the ball. I know the point you are trying to make and we shouldn't cut players just to make salary cap room for the O-Line, but it is the #1 offseason priority by far and it has to be treated as such. I don't think Tua can thrive with the line we have right now, not many QBs can aside from the MVPs and Future MVPs like Mahomes and Burrow.

If you're advocating for the expenditure of an average amount of resources in the attempt to attain an average offensive line, I can go along with that.  Tua and company shouldn't need any better a line than that to succeed at the necessary level, if they indeed have sufficient talent themselves.

The strongest predictor of winning in the NFL is EPA per pass dropback (i.e., the offensive passing game).  The correlation between EPA per pass dropback and pass block win rate (i.e., pass protection), team-by-team in 2021, was 0.37, meaning that about 86% of the variance in EPA per pass dropback throughout the league is associated with things other than pass block win rate.

Moreover, the correlation between pass block win rate (pass protection) and amount of salary cap money devoted to offensive linemen, team-by-team in 2021, was a mere 0.29, meaning that about 92% of the variance in pass block win rate throughout the league is associated with things other than salary cap money devoted to offensive linemen.

So, there is a weak connection between pass protection and the strongest predictor of winning in the NFL -- the offensive passing game.  There is also a weak connection between pass protection and the amount of salary cap money spent on it.

With all that said you can safely go about improving other areas of the team and expecting greater returns on your investments.  Receiver play for example is more strongly related to the offensive passing game than is pass protection.  I would recommend this team focus more on improving its receiving corps than on improving its pass protection.  Certainly it can attempt to do both, but I would prioritize the receiving corps.

[EDGECRUSHER]

Oh yeah, our Receving corps is priority #2. We only have 2 guys and one is a free agent right now. I don't think we need the 90's Cowboys O-Line but if we can crack the Top 18 I think it will improve every faucet of our game. Myabe even defense sinc ethey will have more rest from us not going 3 and Out.

I am praying the issue was with coaching because that means we just need to upgrade at RT and Center and the rest could be set. Jesse Davis should be shot into the sun, no saving him.

[Dolphster]

If that doesn't work for you for whatever reason then I'd recommend you go somewhere else.

Ok.  I was pretty much done with what has become a social justice warrior website anyway.  Thanks for the good conversations over the years everyone.