Do any of you feel any different now than you did on voting day?

[Spider-Dan]

I don't see why you would be unsure if pressuring people to overturn the results of an election is "illegal," but let me help you out: it's extremely illegal.

And just to be clear here:
"We need to make sure all the legal votes were counted accurately" is not illegal.
"I need you to find enough votes to declare me the winner" is.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Not related at all, but since I'm a Republican living in Massachusetts I don't bother voting for President because my vote DOES NOT COUNT.

I would like your vote to count, it should.  It would if we got rid of the electoral college and elected the president based on the popular vote.  And before you whine too much that everyone always votes democrat in the state --- five out of the last six governors of the state were republicans.  The state will vote for republicans just not insane ones.  I was planning on voting for Baker for his reelection in 2022 until I heard he wasn't seeking reelection.  

[stinkfish]

Who's whining? This is a Democrat controlled state. Just a fact.  It is what it is. But it is funny about Massachusetts that the voters seem to like Republican political candidates on the local level and Democratic candidate son a national level.

[Spider-Dan]

Just because I didn't want to let this meatball float by without taking a swing:

I would pull it faster. In my mind I completely think we would be in better shape if he was in charge. The guy is an ass but he is a very smart ass ... no pun intended.

From the day he entered office to the day he left, Trump had the worst record of job losses since such records have been kept in this country.  He inherited a booming economy from Obama and drove it directly into a ditch during COVID, in a way that other countries around the world did not.  Biden turned the economy around and, during an ongoing pandemic, has posted the most job gains on record.

But, in the interests of fairness: if Trump had not been so pathetically incompetent and set so many jobs on fire, there wouldn't have been as many empty jobs available for Biden to fill.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Who's whining? This is a Democrat controlled state. Just a fact.  It is what it is. But it is funny about Massachusetts that the voters seem to like Republican political candidates on the local level and Democratic candidate son a national level.

Mass voters aren’t nearly as left leaning as they are made out to be, but actually quite centrist. But the factors for the dichotomy is 4 fold.  1. The democratic party in mass is quite progressive.  2 The republican party in Mass is quite centrist.  3. On the national level the democrats tend to choose the most centrist members of the caucus for leadership. 4 On the national level the republicans tend to choose the most extremist members of their caucus for leadership.

So when a person like Baker (centrist) runs against someone like Warren (progressive) for governor, The centrist wins.  But if it was Baker vs Warren for Senate.  The candidates themselves matter less the real question is who do you want as Majority leader Schumer (centrist) or McConnel (extremist) .  And once again the centrist wins.  

[Spider-Dan]

So when a person like Baker (centrist) runs against someone like Warren (progressive) for governor, The centrist wins.  But if it was Baker vs Warren for Senate.  The candidates themselves matter less the real question is who do you want as Majority leader Schumer (centrist) or McConnel (extremist) .  And once again the centrist wins.

Martha Coakley lost to Charlie Baker for governor AND Scott Brown for Senate, so I don't see how this model accounts for both of those outcomes.  Is she a progressive, or a centrist?

Seems to me that Martha Coakley is just a terrible candidate, whom MA Dem primary voters seemed to love for some unknown reason.

[CF DolFan]

Just because I didn't want to let this meatball float by without taking a swing:
From the day he entered office to the day he left, Trump had the worst record of job losses since such records have been kept in this country.  He inherited a booming economy from Obama and drove it directly into a ditch during COVID, in a way that other countries around the world did not.  Biden turned the economy around and, during an ongoing pandemic, has posted the most job gains on record.

But, in the interests of fairness: if Trump had not been so pathetically incompetent and set so many jobs on fire, there wouldn't have been as many empty jobs available for Biden to fill.

This is complete BS and I really hope you don't believe this ... lol.  Trump's ecomony was among the best ever. Wasn't Obama. Obama's economy was getting better but Trump quickly proved how fast a president can have an effect on the economy. Covid killed it but the covid effect is over and other than bragging about jobs coming back that democrats shut down to begin with nothing is bouncing back. So other than taking credit for rebounding businesses you destroyed I can't see anything to be proud of in handling this ecomony.

[ArtieChokePhin]

I agree with his whining abou the election and he did pressure people to change the results but I don't know if he did anything illegal. I don;t know if that makes him a dictator as much as a crybaby.  As far as January 9th just like everything else I blame those that were there and broke the law.

You and I both know that there was major fraud committed in the election to get Trump voted out.   The liberals will never admit it.

[Dave Gray]

You and I both know that there was major fraud committed in the election to get Trump voted out.   The liberals will never admit it.

CF, I'd like you to respond to this.  I need to see where your head's at.

[Spider-Dan]

This is complete BS and I really hope you don't believe this ... lol.  Trump's ecomony was among the best ever. Wasn't Obama.

I see you're still in the conservative echo chamber on this one.  Here's a reality check for you:

Trump will have the worst jobs record in modern U.S. history. It’s not just the pandemic.

President Trump took office at the crest of the longest economic expansion in U.S. history. He leaves presiding over the worst labor market in modern U.S. history, as an already-sputtering economic recovery has turned negative.

Friday’s awful jobs report from the Labor Department showed there were still 3 million fewer jobs in the United States than there were on Inauguration Day 2017, when Trump stood in front of the Capitol and vowed to reverse the American carnage.

No other modern president has left the U.S. with a smaller workforce than it had when they took office. Since the government started keeping track in 1939, no other president has even seen significant job losses during a single presidential term — though job growth during George W. Bush’s first four years in office was essentially flat.

Here's some more sources if you don't like Washington Post:

Fortune: Trump to leave office with the worst jobs record since Herbert Hoover (note: we didn't start keeping those records until after Hoover)
CNN: Trump’s job losses are the worst of any American president on record
USA Today: Fact check: Chart of job growth by president shows historic unemployment under Trump
We rate this claim TRUE, based on our research. More jobs were lost during the Trump administration than any other in history.
Reuters: Trump ends his term like a growing number of Americans: out of a job

Trump's management of the pandemic was absolutely catastrophic.  He insisted over and over that it was not a big deal, and his corrupt cronies used the opportunity to gouge state governments who were trying to get critical medical supplies to help address the problem.  It is no accident that the economy quickly recovered under Biden even throughout another year-plus of the ongoing pandemic.

The claim that Trump was better on the economy than Biden is exactly the same as the claim that Dubya was better on the economy than Obama.  It's unhinged Republican fantasy; completely delusional with no basis in reality.

[CF DolFan]

CF, I'd like you to respond to this.  I need to see where your head's at.

I'm over the election and thought Trump should have moved on as well. I havn't been paying attention but I guess evidence has come to light that he did more "pressuring" than I had thought ... not that anything will come of it. I do think there are issues with election integrity in general but while there could have been problems ultimately it was Trump's and or Republicans fault as they were in power when it happened.

I think we need to verify ourselves when we vote. If out of the country then you need to do the same somehow. You can get verified online these days. People act like minorities don't have ID, live within 50 mies of a voting place, and aren't smart enough to use the internet but I actually know they are just as capable as everyone else.  I also think every vote should be counted and done prior to 2 hours after the polls close.  I know it's kind of a joke but we have had live voting on reality shows for years. Can not our government do just as much let alone better? Seems like we are keeping gray areas out there for a reason and nothing positive comes to mind. It's freaking 2022 for crying oout loud.

[CF DolFan]

I'm over the election and thought Trump should have moved on as well. I havn't been paying attention but I guess evidence has come to light that he did more "pressuring" than I had thought ... not that anything will come of it. I do think there are issues with election integrity in general but while there could have been problems ultimately it was Trump's and or Republicans fault as they were in power when it happened.

I think we need to verify ourselves when we vote. If out of the country then you need to do the same somehow. You can get verified online these days. People act like minorities don't have ID, live within 50 mies of a voting place, and aren't smart enough to use the internet but I actually know they are just as capable as everyone else.  I also think every vote should be counted and done prior to 2 hours after the polls close.  I know it's kind of a joke but we have had live voting on reality shows for years. Can not our government do just as much let alone better? Seems like we are keeping gray areas out there for a reason and nothing positive comes to mind. It's freaking 2022 for crying oout loud.

yes I get it. just saw the president's talking box say as much too. Everything is everyone else's fault. Take a year off Trump's presidency and we were soaring and on our way to energy independence. I bet you had much more expendable cash than you do now. It's kind of funny because most of those lost jobs came at the expense of Democratic shutdowns.

[Spider-Dan]

yes I get it. just saw the president's talking box say as much too. Everything is everyone else's fault. Take a year off Trump's presidency and we were soaring and on our way to energy independence. I bet you had much more expendable cash than you do now. It's kind of funny because most of those lost jobs came at the expense of Democratic shutdowns.

Not sure if you meant to reply to me instead of yourself.

But if so, this premise doesn't make much sense.  Unless the economy-destroying shutdown-obsessed Democrat-run blue states immediately became pro-business and anti-shutdown the moment Trump left office, there is no difference here; Democrats are still job-killing commies regardless, right?  You're just making excuses for why Trump's 9 months of COVID were a complete disaster, while Biden immediately righted the ship when he got into office.  This is directly and entirely due to the Trump Administration's pathetic COVID response; it is no accident that Mr. "The pandemic will be over by Easter" (note: Easter 2020 was April 12) presided over TWENTY MILLION LOST JOBS in April 2020, the very same month he said COVID would be done with.

And for the record, even prior to COVID Trump's economic growth was feeble compared to Obama's second term, much less Biden's term so far:



You can make a stronger argument for the George W. Bush economy than the Donald Trump economy.  Trump was literally that bad.

[Dave Gray]

I think it's foolish to equate the success of an entire economy to a president.  You can look at individual policies and say that it's good/bad for the economy in the short or long term, but all this stuff is so complicated and related to so many outside factors, sometimes set decades in advance.  ...not to mention global issues, technology trends, etc.

Also, there can be foolish short-term solutions that help in the moment but are harmful long term, and vice-versa.

[Spider-Dan]

I think Dubya's economic collapse was due to long-term systemic factors (notably: deregulation) that started at the end of Clinton's second term with Gramm-Leach-Bliley in November 1999 and the Commodity Futures Modernization Act in December 2000; these factors were accelerated greatly during the Bush Administration.  Bill Clinton does share some blame here (he signed those two bills), but Bush poured gasoline on the fire.

In contrast, the terrible performance during COVID was almost entirely on Trump.  The US had the worst COVID response of any G8 nation, and the Trump Administration took precisely the wrong step at every juncture: from downplaying the danger, to shifting blame onto the Chinese with impotent travel bans, to profiteering from the response.  It was a master class in how NOT to respond to a pandemic.