The new NBA era: players as GMs

[Phishfan]

Yeah, I remember when Gary Payton and Karl Malone joined a team 1 year removed from a title to get a ring "the easy way."
I also remember when LeBron went to Miami with Bosh to join Wade and win a ring "the easy way."  And then when he went to Cleveland with Kyrie and Kevin Love to win "the easy way."
Sometimes "the easy way" isn't quite so easy. 

All three of these teams went to the finals and two won it a year later. I think you need better examples of finding the hard way.

[Spider-Dan]

But there is a big difference between the leagues in that it is not uncommon in the NHL for an 8 seed to knock off a 1 seed. Playoff hockey is the great equalizer and ranks up there as one of the great sporting events of the year.

Do people really enjoy watching a postseason where seeds are totally irrelevant and the outcomes are virtually random?  I mean, if you want to talk about a meaningless regular season, watching a playoff where the second round is the 4-6-7-8 seeds makes the regular season (and home advantage) a complete joke.

All three of these teams went to the finals and two won it a year later. I think you need better examples of finding the hard way.

The entire argument is not that these teams are really good (really good teams exist in almost every era), but that they are So Overwhelmingly Unbeatable that the entire season and postseason are a mere formality for their coronation.  But that can't be true if they lose.

So when people are complaining about how Everyone Knew the Warriors were going to win the title back in July... well, everyone also knew that the Lakers and Heat and Cavs were going to win when they formed their superteams.  And then they lost.  And everyone also knew that the Warriors were going to win last year.  And then they lost.

Hindsight is 20/20.

[Phishfan]

Do people really enjoy watching a postseason where seeds are totally irrelevant and the outcomes are virtually random? 

If you prefer what you see in the NBA more power to you but I've seen the majority of people here state they don't have any interest. I'm among them. Maybe there is a silent majority but most people I know personally also found the NBA boring and uninteresting this year.

That said, I will reiterate that I live in a city that has more support for its MLS team than its NBA team. Vamos Orlando!

[masterfins]

From 1984-1989, PHI won exactly two playoff series.  Both were in the first round.

Nice Cherry Pick on the dates.  Philly played the Lakers for the Championship in 1980, 1982, and 1983.  They swept the Lakers in '83 for the Championship win.

[Baba Booey]

I just had a conversation with the guy at the gas station yesterday about how the Orlando City Soccer Club and its fans have overtaken the Orlando Magic and the reasons behind it.

Not surprising. Lots of cities like Orlando out there that know the day after the season ends they have no shot for next season. That is bad for the sport. Why would fans invest money in a sport like that? And Orlando is the perfect example as they don't have an NHL team, or a MLB team, or a NFL team. So the Magic are the cities biggest franchise. The NBA needs that franchise to be strong to keep their presence in the city strong.

If the Knicks, Lakers, or Bulls suck who cares those cities have multiple teams in other major sports. But the cities like Orlando, Sacramento, Portland, Memphis (just to name a few)...those teams are the big game in town and to kill off cities like that is really bad for the NBA. They can kill off a city/town and those towns may never recover to the point where the fans come back.  Cities that have multiple major league sports franchises the fans can float from sport to sport with their entertainment dollar and will jump on the bandwagon when the team is good. In cities where you have one big-time team in town and you piss those people off, they go away and never come back if you look at history.

[Baba Booey]

Nice Cherry Pick on the dates.  Philly played the Lakers for the Championship in 1980, 1982, and 1983.  They swept the Lakers in '83 for the Championship win.

Thank you! That was my point. Philly was a top flight franchise in the early 80's that pushed Boston all year in the eastern conference. What we don't see today in the NBA. Meaningful games

[Spider-Dan]

Nice Cherry Pick on the dates.  Philly played the Lakers for the Championship in 1980, 1982, and 1983.  They swept the Lakers in '83 for the Championship win.

LA beat Boston for the title in 2010.
Dallas won the title in 2011.
Miami won in 2012 and 2013.
San Antonio played for the title in 2013, won in 2014, and has averaged over 60 wins per season for this decade.
But apparently none of those teams count because CLE and GS have made the Finals for three years in a row.

Don't talk to me about cherry picking.  The entire basis of the anti-today argument revolves around discarding the first half of this decade.  Apply that same logic to the '80s and Philly doesn't even exist.

[Spider-Dan]

Not surprising. Lots of cities like Orlando out there that know the day after the season ends they have no shot for next season. That is bad for the sport. Why would fans invest money in a sport like that?

How do fans in Jacksonville, Buffalo, or Cleveland feel about the NFL?
What about MLB fans in San Diego, Miami, Seattle, or Oakland?

It's hard to complain about how predetermined the NBA is when the same three QBs (Brady, Peyton, Big Ben) have represented the AFC in all but one of the last 14 Super Bowls.  But the Warriors have made the Finals 3 years in a row, so the NBA is broken.

[Phishfan]

LA beat Boston for the title in 2010.
Dallas won the title in 2011.
Miami won in 2012 and 2013.
San Antonio played for the title in 2013, won in 2014, and has averaged over 60 wins per season for this decade.
But apparently none of those teams count because CLE and GS have made the Finals for three years in a row.

Don't talk to me about cherry picking.  The entire basis of the anti-today argument revolves around discarding the first half of this decade.  Apply that same logic to the '80s and Philly doesn't even exist.

Actually, that Miami run and team is what started this discussion about players jumping to super teams so you may want to rethink using that example as that should be the starting point rather than anything before it.

[Tenshot13]

The NBA has been broken since Jordan, Malone, Barkley, Miller, etc. retired.  There are all of about 3 NBA players today that you might be able to put in their category when they retire, and they all played in the Finals this year.

[Spider-Dan]

Actually, that Miami run and team is what started this discussion about players jumping to super teams so you may want to rethink using that example as that should be the starting point rather than anything before it.

Well first off, Boston was an example of a big three team-up before Miami, and Boston losing to LA in 2010 was the first example I cited to start off this decade.  But I suppose you can exclude that one if you wish?  Miami still lost to Dallas in 2011 so you are only removing one year from the record.

Even if we exclude 2010, the armchair historians are still pretending that the Celtics were never a contender because Miami beat them in 7, that the Spurs have been irrelevant in this decade even though they've won a title and averaged 60+ wins every year, that Dallas doesn't count because they only beat a superteam once, that OKC, HOU, and LAC all don't count as competitors even though they've all eliminated the Spurs.

The NBA has been broken since Jordan, Malone, Barkley, Miller, etc. retired.  There are all of about 3 NBA players today that you might be able to put in their category when they retire, and they all played in the Finals this year.

Miller was the last of that group to retire, in 2005.  I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you aren't talking about anyone that played in the '90s (e.g. Shaq, Kobe, Duncan).  So I guess you're saying that Wade, Kawhi, CP3, Westbrook, Kyrie, Harden... none of them are on the level of Reggie Miller?

I find it amazing that people have all this reverence for '90s players who never won anything, yet treat players from today like garbage even if they have won a title.

[Baba Booey]

I find it amazing that people have all this reverence for '90s players who never won anything, yet treat players from today like garbage even if they have won a title.

It's called competitive balance. In the 90's you had multiple good teams who entered each season with a legit shot to win a championship. The Knicks pushed the Bulls every year to the limit and made them earn it. Before that Bulls pushed the Pistons to have them earn it. In that 90's decade other teams like the Pacers and Heat were good enough where if someone like Jordan was never born they could have maybe won rings in that time-frame as well. Out west you had teams like Utah with two hall of famers who was an elite team of that era but just came up short to maybe the greatest team to ever play. Houston won it all twice when Jordan left and was still a top team when he returned. Orlando was a powerhouse back in the 90's. Every great player in the 90's didn't run to one or two teams like they do now. Each conference was deep with talented teams that "could" win it all but they ran into a machine in Jordan. 

Today's game you have 2 teams, that's it 2 teams and every "star" or "big name" player tries to get on one of those two teams. Carmelo and Chris Paul have already been seen house shopping in Cleveland...lol. I mean its a joke.  And the last 3 years we have had the same finals and next year it will be Golden St vs Cleveland  again unless their team planes crash at some point and wipe out the team out. Joking of course but not really that is the only way one of those teams don't make the finals next year.  There isn't a team in the east that will come close to Cleveland next year. I don't care who Boston drafts and if they sign a big-time free agent to boot, they aren't anywhere near Cleveland's level. And out west forget it.....Golden St could lose Curry or Durant for the season and they still will have a cakewalk through the western conference.

More respect for a guy in the 90's who never won a title cause he didn't take the easy way out to try and get on the Bulls than I do for someone like Durant who was already on a good team, CHOKED in the 2016 palyoffs so he waived the white flag and joined a 73 win team to get an easy ring which he didn't have to do much to earn. So yeah...reverence for the guy who didn't take the short-cut to get a ring! Props to them!

[Sunstroke]

The NBA has been broken since Jordan, Malone, Barkley, Miller, etc. retired.  There are all of about 3 NBA players today that you might be able to put in their category when they retire, and they all played in the Finals this year.

If you would take Barkley off that list, I would have an easier time buying in... Barkley is the most overrated "NBA star" player in the last 50 years. His entire game was based on one thing...putting his fat ass on another player and backing them into the post.

[Phishfan]

Well first off, Boston was an example of a big three team-up before Miami, and Boston losing to LA in 2010 was the first example I cited to start off this decade.  But I suppose you can exclude that one if you wish? 

You have to exclude them from this if you ask me. Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett were traded to Boston, the way the old teams were built, they did not run there as free agents. Maimi started the super team discussion.

[Phishfan]

he waived the white flag and joined a 73 win team to get an easy ring which he didn't have to do much to earn.

In all fairness the guy was the MVP and had a terrific series. Don't let your feelings about how he got to Golden State cloud your judgement of what he did while there.