Gase/Ross and player protests

[Spider-Dan]

Earlier, Gase announced that Dolphins players must stand for the anthem or remain in the tunnel.  But shortly after that, the NFL issued a memo saying that all players "should" be out on the field standing for the anthem (with further clarification on "should" possibly forthcoming).

Ross has generally been one of the more player-supportive owners on this subject.  It seems likely that he would have been aware that this memo was coming.  Did he get out in front and (have Gase) tell players that they can stand in the tunnel to give them some leeway to continue protesting?  I guess we'll see on Sunday.

[CF DolFan]

The NFL owners are meeting next week to discuss it so this weekend will probably be the same as last week per each team  ... meaning the three Phins players will be in the tunnel during the anthem. After next week I'd expect something league wide unless Ross implements a Jerry Jones initiative. Based on his history I don't see this happening.

As well I don't think Ross had anything to do with Gase's new rule ... other than approving it.  I really think Gase is the kind of coach who would want the players to be out there as he wouldn't want to add any more distractions to the team so I'm guessing this new Dolphins rule came directly from him.

[Dave Gray]

I think that the NFLs best path here is to take no action.   That way, it's up to each individual to represent himself how he sees fit and they don't have to be involved or piss off anyone -- just fall back to the CBA allowing for it.  Eventually this will die down as uninteresting.  I pretty much thought that the kneeling story was over until Pence re-ignited it with his thing.

[fyo]

But it isn't going away. It's talked about every single game and that's a distraction the NFL doesn't like. There is genuine concern that the popularity of the product is suffering because of this.

The easy way out for both owners and players is to shift the protests away from the anthem by providing the players with a sufficiently prominent soap box. As always, the devil is in the details and the league will have a hard time convincing players unless there are some very concrete and long term elements to the plan. One of the better suggestions I've read about is to dedicate one or two weeks every season to these issues (however you want to define them), similar to Crucial Catch, Breast Cancer Awareness, etc. There would probably need to be some associated activities, but something like that could allow both owners and players to walk away winners. The players can say they got what they wanted and the owners can say that they always agreed with the sentiment behind the protesting players, just not how it was done.

If done right, it could actually even make something of a difference in the broad scheme of things.

[Spider-Dan]

fyo, as I see it your plan has a critical flaw.

The real, underlying problem here is that many NFL fans fundamentally disagree with the position these players are taking: that there is a problem with the way law enforcement treats minorities in America.  (This shouldn't be too surprising.) They believe that these protests are just as illegitimate as the rest of the Black Lives Matter protests around the country.  Therefore, any solution by the league that gives a voice to players to express that opinion will be rejected, and instead of saying that "players are disrespecting the troops," we will return to the previous "players are disrespecting law enforcement" complaints that occurred when NBA and WNBA players wore t-shirts in protest.

This is why most solutions will not work.  To approach the situation as if the problem we need to address is the anthem or the troops or the flag can never work, because players aren't protesting those things.  They are protesting injustice at the hands of law enforcement.  Thinking that an officially sanctioned method to protest police brutality will make this go away is like thinking that the way to address Rosa Parks' protest was to build more buses so that black people would no longer have to sit at the back.  The issue then was not about transportation, just like it's not currently about The Star Spangled Banner, or even kneeling.

Keep in mind Kaepernick originally started kneeling after speaking with a local veteran to try to figure out a way to protest that would not be seen as disrespectful; in every other circumstance, kneeling is seen as a sign of EXTRA respect.  It is seen as disrespect here solely because of the issue he is protesting.  If Kaep had instead said that he was kneeling for the anthem because the VA is underfunded and there are homeless veterans in every major city, he would have been cheered wildly.

Even the Dolphins' solution of having protesting players remain out of sight and come to the field after the anthem ultimately won't work, because the objectors will know why those players aren't on the field, and will continue to complain.  The only solution that will "work" is for all athletes to shut up and completely stop talking about it.  Not on the field, not in press conferences, not in magazine articles, not on Twitter.  They must cease discussion of this issue.  Then, and only then, will the objectors be happy.

[fyo]

The real, underlying problem here is that many NFL fans fundamentally disagree with the position these players are taking: that there is a problem with the way law enforcement treats minorities in America.

I think it's perfectly possible to couch the solution in a way that doesn't feel divisive and would be unobjectionable to the VAST majority of both players, viewers and "NFL fans" (i.e. anyone with a twitter account). There are always going to be some vocal people in the last group that are going to be pissed off no matter what.

The NFL doesn't need to come up with a solution that UNIFIES and HEALS all rifts. What it needs is to separate the protests from the anthem.

I think pretty much every single team has a "community outreach" program of some sort. These programs cover a lot of different things, including events with local law enforcement, Martin Luther King Jr. Day (at least for the Dolphins' program), and a 9/11 "National Day of Service and Remembrance". Just this week the Dolphins (plus Goodell) did ride-alongs with Broward Sheriff's Office as part of program called RISE (Ross Initiative for Sports Equality), which has a stated goal of improving race relations.

My point is that the NFL need "merely" supply an appropriate alternative soap box, it need not support every opinion voiced from said soap box. A few weeks dedicated to community outreach in various forms could be part of that -- and could certainly be couched in a way that no one (barring the twitter trolls) would find objectionable.

[Spider-Dan]

Given the general conservative predisposition of the average NFL fan, I suspect that a league-sanctioned venue for player criticism of law enforcement would cause no less blowback than what we are seeing today.  It's one thing to have ungrateful players behaving poorly; it's quite another for the league itself to officially give the players a podium from which to attack the police.

[CF DolFan]

Dave I don't know how you thought it was over. Ratings are constantly dropping. I cancelled my Sunday Ticket as well as many other people I know because I was sick of the whole thing. Why is it such a bad thing to just want to watch football? It's supposed to be a distraction from the Trump vs the View mentality and not just another dumb arse argument we are forced to endure.   

[Phishfan]

That's the thing CF, I've been going out to watch mostly so I don't hear a lot of it. Are they really talking about it on the broadcasts that much? Is anyone really forced to hear about it during game coverage? I expected most of the talk comes during the Monday Morning QB shows where they like to hear themselves talk.

[CF DolFan]

I don't know. Maybe because I'm conservative and that's a lot of who I surround myself with but I felt it hasn't let up since the season started with the whole "someone sign Cap or you're racist thing". The Trump comment was just a speed bumb as far as I know.

[Dave Gray]

^ It's interesting that you see the conversation that way.

I always saw it as Kaep probably had enough talent to make a roster, but it was a distraction risk.  And then the double standard of allowing certain types of distractions (like domestic violence or whatever), but not this.

[pondwater]

fyo, as I see it your plan has a critical flaw.

The real, underlying problem here is that many NFL fans fundamentally disagree with the position these players are taking: that there is a problem with the way law enforcement treats minorities in America.  (This shouldn't be too surprising.) They believe that these protests are just as illegitimate as the rest of the Black Lives Matter protests around the country.  Therefore, any solution by the league that gives a voice to players to express that opinion will be rejected, and instead of saying that "players are disrespecting the troops," we will return to the previous "players are disrespecting law enforcement" complaints that occurred when NBA and WNBA players wore t-shirts in protest.

This is why most solutions will not work.  To approach the situation as if the problem we need to address is the anthem or the troops or the flag can never work, because players aren't protesting those things.  They are protesting injustice at the hands of law enforcement.  Thinking that an officially sanctioned method to protest police brutality will make this go away is like thinking that the way to address Rosa Parks' protest was to build more buses so that black people would no longer have to sit at the back.  The issue then was not about transportation, just like it's not currently about The Star Spangled Banner, or even kneeling.

Keep in mind Kaepernick originally started kneeling after speaking with a local veteran to try to figure out a way to protest that would not be seen as disrespectful; in every other circumstance, kneeling is seen as a sign of EXTRA respect.  It is seen as disrespect here solely because of the issue he is protesting.  If Kaep had instead said that he was kneeling for the anthem because the VA is underfunded and there are homeless veterans in every major city, he would have been cheered wildly.

Even the Dolphins' solution of having protesting players remain out of sight and come to the field after the anthem ultimately won't work, because the objectors will know why those players aren't on the field, and will continue to complain.  The only solution that will "work" is for all athletes to shut up and completely stop talking about it.  Not on the field, not in press conferences, not in magazine articles, not on Twitter.  They must cease discussion of this issue.  Then, and only then, will the objectors be happy.

I would say that if these millionaire protesters want to protest. They should do it on their own time and their own dime. Don't ram it down the throats of people that don't give a shit what they're talking about. When you force things like your opinion or views on people, they usually don't usually like it. You know like those goofy bible thumpers that try to convert you over to their magical man in the sky.

Let these attention seeking clowns go out and get their own audience for their message/protest and stop riding on the back of the NFL's paying customers. I have a feeling that if they had to go out and actually do that on their own, most people would tell them to fuck off. Half the population or more doesn't agree with them. That's not going to change and they already know that. They're just trying to agitate whitey, in which they have succeeded. Good job guys, now STFU and go play your child's game for millions of dollars. 

[Spider-Dan]

That's the thing CF, I've been going out to watch mostly so I don't hear a lot of it. Are they really talking about it on the broadcasts that much? Is anyone really forced to hear about it during game coverage? I expected most of the talk comes during the Monday Morning QB shows where they like to hear themselves talk.

I'd say the vast majority of the talk about the protests comes from political commentators, 24hr sports networks (TV and radio) filling their content day, or fans on social media.  During the game broadcasts, it's rarely addressed, if ever.  And obviously, if you're physically at a game you have to go out of your way to notice it; if you are watching a flag or the person singing (as you should be) then you won't even see what the players are or aren't doing.

If you just want to watch an NFL game, these protests do not affect your experience.  If you want to watch 4 hours of ESPN talking about football, they will affect you somewhat.  If you want to watch 4 hours of cable news, they will affect you a great deal.

[Spider-Dan]

I would say that if these millionaire protesters want to protest. They should do it on their own time and their own dime.

BLM protesters are on their own time and their own dime.  So was Jemele Hill when she was on Twitter.  It doesn't matter where or when they do it, it's always the wrong place and the wrong time.

The only effective way to placate those who object to protests is for protesters to shut up and go home.  This has always been the case.

[pondwater]

I'd say the vast majority of the talk about the protests comes from political commentators, 24hr sports networks (TV and radio) filling their content day, or fans on social media.  During the game broadcasts, it's rarely addressed, if ever.  And obviously, if you're physically at a game you have to go out of your way to notice it; if you are watching a flag or the person singing (as you should be) then you won't even see what the players are or aren't doing.

If you just want to watch an NFL game, these protests do not affect your experience.  If you want to watch 4 hours of ESPN talking about football, they will affect you somewhat.  If you want to watch 4 hours of cable news, they will affect you a great deal.

So if everyone's watching the flag and the singer and doesn't even notice the protests. What good are they? I mean, if as you say, these protests shouldn't be getting any attention. Then without any attention, what are they for?

Even with lots of attention, how is a millionaire grown man kneeling before playing a child's game going to help their perceived issue? Actually, the only issue related to this whole clusterfuck that people are talking about is the kneeling itself. In that respect they have already failed in their quest as social justice warriors.