Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
January 16, 2018, 08:27:48 am
Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
News: Brian Fein is now blogging weekly!  Make sure to check the homepage for his latest editorial.
+  The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums
|-+  TDMMC Forums
| |-+  Off-Topic Board
| | |-+  Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 Print
Author Topic: Star Wars: The Last Jedi  (Read 436 times)
CF DolFan
Global Moderator
Uber Member
*****
Posts: 12199


cf_dolfan
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2017, 11:24:00 am »

Did Linney play Laura Dern?!
Hahaha ... I have no idea why I would switch them other than the Laura name.
Logged

Itís hard to win an argument with a smart person, but itís damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person - Bill Murray
Dave Gray
Administrator
Uber Member
*****
Posts: 26112


It's doo-doo, baby!

26384964 davebgray@comcast.net davebgray floridadavegray
WWW Email
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2017, 12:34:08 pm »

I love both Rogue One and Force Awakens, so I don't want to come across as badmouthing those films.  I personally enjoy Force Awakens more than Rogue One, also, so do with that bit of info what you will.

The Force Awakens had a very important, very specific job: to heal the franchise -- to bring something familiar for old fans, to make a starting point for new fans.  It did this by giving us new characters that we cared about, but in situations that were very much like things we already knew.  And it worked.  But that couldn't continue or you're just rehashing.

Rogue One was a great little movie, but not something that really expands the story.

The Last Jedi is the most EPIC of the films...ever...really.  It grows so much lore -- it gives us considerable new force powers, it gives us Jedi lore history.  But more than that, The Last Jedi is ABOUT something.  It has themes and lessons, hearkening back to the lessons Luke taught us in ROTJ about redemption.

The Last Jedi is about failure.  It's about learning to better yourself after that failure.  Luke fails Ben.  He doesn't live up to the myth, but his hubris took over.  And he learns to better himself and does an even greater act to make up for it and become that myth in a literal sense.  Also, the Finn/Rose/Poe subplot is also about failure, but it's more about the lessons that come from that failure.

And there's also the main lesson, which is that we're going to save ourselves, through the next generation.  Not from the high-born or elite.  You aren't defined by your bloodline.

I also think that Kylo Ren is the best villain in the history of Star Wars.  He's so conflicted and Driver's acting is next-level.  Seeing it a 2nd time, knowing what he's thinking, the dude emotes so much with just eye-twitching.

The motivations in this movie are superb.  Every character acts in a way that makes sense, once you know what's going on.  Holdo, Luke, Poe, Kylo, Rey -- they all act in ways that are consistent with their character, considering what they know and what they don't.

The movie is beautiful.  And it's big.  Star Wars is bigger after this.
Logged

I drink your milkshake!
MaineDolFan
Global Moderator
Uber Member
*****
Posts: 11455

MaineDolFan
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2017, 01:39:19 pm »

Rouge One was amazing.

Last Jedi was as well. 

I think a huge issue I have is where these films have to constantly stand up against another; they don't.  Yes, they are part of a series.  But this "x movie doesn't do what y movie did, so I'm pissed" thinking really confuses me.  Frankly, it's like your favorite band re-recording the same song, over and over.  What's the point?

I don't give a rat's ass if George Lucas likes, appreciates, didn't like, or otherwise, the storyline in this movie.  Same with Mark Hamill; it's a Star Wars franchise and not the Skywalker one.  The franchise isn't about a singular character, or characters.  How did Yoda ghost hit Luke with an actual cane?  Don't care.  I laughed; it's the suspension of belief.  For that matter how does a storm trooper trained for sanitation duties wind up in a battle in Force Awakens, is skilled enough to man a weapon in a tie fighter, and then stand toe to toe with Captain Phasma?

Don't care.  The same way I didn't care about a hobbit making it across middle earth and getting a ring into Mount Doom when I first read J.R.R. Tolkien.  Fin's a skilled janitor (and Frodo is a determined little hobbit).

I really enjoyed the entire movie.  And, for the record, I don't believe for a moment Hamill is done in the series.  It's simply time to pass the torch, this isn't his story.

Logged

"God is a comedian, playing to an audience too afraid to laugh."
-Voltaire
Dave Gray
Administrator
Uber Member
*****
Posts: 26112


It's doo-doo, baby!

26384964 davebgray@comcast.net davebgray floridadavegray
WWW Email
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2017, 04:07:11 pm »

My tentative SW rankings:

1) Empire
2) New Hope
3) Last Jedi
4) Force Awakens
5) Return of the Jedi
6) Rogue One
7) Revenge of Sith
Cool Clones
9) Phantom Menace
Logged

I drink your milkshake!
MaineDolFan
Global Moderator
Uber Member
*****
Posts: 11455

MaineDolFan
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2017, 11:42:47 am »

I need to see Last Jedi again, but I'll play.

1:  New Hope
2:  Rouge One
3:  Empire
4:  Last Jedi
5:  Return of the Jedi
6:  Force Awakens
T9: Sith / Clones / Menace
Logged

"God is a comedian, playing to an audience too afraid to laugh."
-Voltaire
bsmooth
Uber Member
*****
Posts: 4524


I love YaBB 1G - SP1!


« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2017, 02:28:02 am »

I need to see Last Jedi again, but I'll play.

1:  New Hope
2:  Rouge One
3:  Empire
4:  Last Jedi
5:  Return of the Jedi
6:  Force Awakens
T9: Sith / Clones / Menace

Rogue over Empire...brave choice.
Logged
fyo
Uber Member
*****
Posts: 6609


4866.5 miles from Dolphin Stadium


« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2017, 11:35:09 am »

They are all different movies and although I really liked the original trilogy, I would rather watch Jar Jar today than one of those.

Ranked with my enjoyment at the time I first watched them, the originals trilogy probably takes the top spots, I just don't enjoy watching them again.

Rogue One is definitely my favorite of the newer movies and the only one to threaten the original trilogy in "first watch enjoyment"

Logged
Downunder Dolphan
Senior Member
****
Posts: 407

Fins Fan since 2nd January 1982


Email
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2018, 10:14:18 am »

I think the biggest issue I had was that it was basically a big FU to long time Star Wars fan.  This movie really wanted to wipe the slate clean of previous canon, painfully so.

Yeah, coming from someone who saw Star Wars (A New Hope) as an 8 year old kid when it first hit the screens in 1977 and followed them since, this is the strong feeling I got too.

While I did not hate The Last Jedi as a whole, there are many aspects of the film that I absolutely detest. There are so many things contradictory to what has been built up in IV-V-VI-VII and that are just plain wrong.

Not sure if you guys have seen what the folks at the review site Half in the Bag said, but they (humorously) cover a fair bit of of this territory (spoiler alert):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9hwGZFPSmw&app=desktop

The prequel-esque story with the casino planet is awful, that's around half an hour that did not need to be there. A subsequent bonus would be that Benicio Del Toro as the hacker DJ with his arms dealer political speech mercifully wouldn't have been there either...

The ridiculous Leia scene: at no other time in the five movies does she even use the force, let alone like that. Not before, not afterwards. Not once. Unbelievable!

Yoda. Seriously WTF?

The set up of what were potentially major characters & themes in The Force Awakens, only to be radically changed or snuffed out in this one. Rey's parentage, a whole lot of fuss and wasted movie time all about absolutely nothing as it turns out. General Hux interestingly seemed to be more of a competing millitarian equal to Kylo Ren in the previous film (a relationship similar to Darth Vader & Grand Moff Tarkin, very different but equals in rank - a key difference though being that Vader & Tarkin clearly respect each other, Kylo Ren & Hux clearly don't) but here he's nothing more than a bumbling, snivelling comedy relief character. Captain Phasma: there has never been a character that visually looked so important, yet turned out to be so pathetically lame. The story around Snoke had the potential to be interesting, but Rian Johnson apparently had other ideas... Vice Admiral Holdo (Laura Dern) was an awful addition that should not have been there: Admiral Ackbar could have been this pivotal character (hell, even Leia could have been more appropriate the way things have turned out).

Then there's Poe doing the equivalent of a handbrake turn in an X-Wing. The Matrix-like slow motion shots during the lightsabre scenes. That stuff looks horribly tacky and out of place.

Ironically unlike some others I did not find Luke's humor in The Last Jedi to be strange: in A New Hope & Empire Strikes Back he let rip with a few sarcastic remarks at times, so I thought these instances were not jarring. That said some of the other humor though was really odd, like trying way too hard. A prank call? Your mother? Seriously no.

While still entertaining, overall I thought the movie was a mess (the Star Wars equivalent of Quantum of Solace in the James Bond series) and worst of all has left me not really interested in what happens from here. The frustrating thing is I can see it had the potential to be amazing with the right editing, the right oversight, but like others I also see a finality here where it was maybe not intended. Kylo Ren is the only interesting character with any screen presence that is left, I don't care for the rest. Carrie Fisher was incredibly dull in the last two movies, I'm still scatching my head wondering what the hell they were thinking having Leia to be a feature of Episode IX? That's not going to happen now of course, but it seems weird they did not change things around before the movie was released knowing full well that was no longer a possibility.

So in the overall scheme of things I rank film this way down, not as bad as the prequels but worryingly close. I doubt future viewings will change my mind.

1. A New Hope
2. Empire Strikes Back
3. Return of the Jedi
4. The Force Awakens
5. Rogue One
6. The Last Jedi
T9. The prequel shit
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 09:16:11 pm by Downunder Dolphan » Logged
CF DolFan
Global Moderator
Uber Member
*****
Posts: 12199


cf_dolfan
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2018, 01:12:38 pm »

Not sure if itís because we are the same age and have had similar experiences with the series but Iíd say thatís a great review Downunder!
Logged

Itís hard to win an argument with a smart person, but itís damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person - Bill Murray
Pappy13
Uber Member
*****
Posts: 6014



« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2018, 07:50:34 pm »

The Last Jedi is the most EPIC of the films...ever...really.  It grows so much lore -- it gives us considerable new force powers, it gives us Jedi lore history.
So I watched the movie today and after rereading this thread, I think the reason that you liked it Dave and the reason why some have not is exactly what you just said, the LORE. In my opinion there are those whose enjoyment of the movie hinges on the LORE. They enjoy the movie when the LORE is the focus and it goes in the direction they like. There are others who while the LORE is important it's not central to their movie enjoyment. I have to agree with others that from a plot/characters standpoint, this one was rather weak in several places. Not ALL of the characters, some of them are REALLY good, but overall it's hit or miss. The LORE is there, but there's a lot of other stuff that is rather weak and extremely forced and I agree 30 mins could have been removed and made it better. For me, unfortunately none of the movies since the first 2 have really captured the magic of the first 2 where nothing seemed forced at all. They had the the best characters and the best plot lines. The last couple may have been the best of the rest, but they are still behind the original 2 that started it all.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 12:29:22 am by Pappy13 » Logged

That which does not kill me...gives me XP.
Pappy13
Uber Member
*****
Posts: 6014



« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2018, 08:02:10 pm »

1. A New Hope
2. Empire Strikes Back
3. Return of the Jedi
4. The Force Awakens
5. Rogue One
6. The Last Jedi
T9. The prequel shit
This is probably how I'd rank things as well. I might be convinced to move Return of the Jedi down a spot or 2 as there was also some bad parts in that movie, but overall it was very entertaining.
Logged

That which does not kill me...gives me XP.
Pappy13
Uber Member
*****
Posts: 6014



« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2018, 08:17:15 pm »

I am so, so glad that I did not see this movie on premiere night, as I would have been forced to watch it again with my nephew.  I'll wait for my opinion to set, but right now I have it as V-IV-VII-III-VI-VIII-II.
Did you miss I? Judging by the fact the no one noticed including you, I'd say it's well down the list.
Logged

That which does not kill me...gives me XP.
Spider-Dan
Global Moderator
Uber Member
*****
Posts: 10857


Bay Area Niner-Hater


« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2018, 02:00:15 am »

Episode I isn't good enough to even make the ranking.  Its exclusion is intentional.
Logged

Downunder Dolphan
Senior Member
****
Posts: 407

Fins Fan since 2nd January 1982


Email
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2018, 09:02:31 pm »

Episode I isn't good enough to even make the ranking.  Its exclusion is intentional.

I don't regard it as worse than the other two prequels, hence the equal ranking.

Most people detest The Phantom Menace the most because of:

- Jar Jar Binks
- The Kid
- Midichlorians
- Politics in Star Wars
- The weird looking Yoda (in the original cut/release)

As bad as those things are, the story is nowhere as incredibly stupid as the following two movies, and the acting (and directing) nowhere near as horrible. For the key love story Hayden Christiensen & Natalie Portman had absolutely zero chemistry between them - I think Harvey Weinstein & Germaine Greer would have more spark, it was that bad. The production & direction were lazy, almost all done on green screen with Lucas sitting on a chair watching two monitors: so many scenes people are either walking, turning to a window or just sitting on a couch, with the background (and other characters) to be CGI'd in later. The plots were downright stupid, right up to the horrendous ending in Revenge of the Sith which was so bad it was borderline funny. There's no way I would say either of these massive turkeys is better than The Phantom Menace, in many regards they are even worse.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 09:08:23 pm by Downunder Dolphan » Logged
Downunder Dolphan
Senior Member
****
Posts: 407

Fins Fan since 2nd January 1982


Email
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2018, 09:50:22 pm »

General Hux interestingly seemed to be more of a competing millitarian equal to Kylo Ren in the previous film (a relationship similar to Darth Vader & Grand Moff Tarkin, very different but equals in rank - a key difference though being that Vader & Tarkin clearly respect each other, Kylo Ren & Hux clearly don't) but here he's nothing more than a bumbling, snivelling comedy relief character.

A bit more on this change in Hux - in The Last Jedi, I had a hard time not laughing whenever he appeared. Nothing to do with the lame prank call, but more to do with the fact that he reminded me of this guy:



Christopher Pyne is an Australian right-wing politician, who was spoofed in a number of satirical Star Wars based political pieces:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWa0WmMo-1Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Evi4OpC0RN0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxZNztTqwYg

I can't help thinking that maybe Rian Johnson maybe saw these and thought he had to have a character like that in The Last Jedi. Either that or he saw Shaun Micallef's impression of Kenneth Williams from the Carry-On movies, and decided General Hux should be this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10bXlqjJLdg







Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

The Dolphins Make Me Cry - Copyright© 2008 - Designed and Marketed by Dave Gray


Powered by SMF 1.1.8 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC