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Author Topic: Current state of MLB is getting worse  (Read 8738 times)
MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2018, 01:59:20 pm »

Any HBP judged to be intentional should result in the following:

- immediate pitcher ejection and mandatory suspension
- batter scores (and clears the bases)

The idea that clearly intentional HBP is allowed to exist is disgusting.  It is no different than a football player attacking another player using a helmet as a weapon in hand.

I wouldn’t oppose that, but convincing people to raise it to a double is hard enough.
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CF DolFan
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« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2018, 02:36:09 pm »

If a hbp is deemed on purpose then the pitcher should have to sit 50-60 games in my opinion. As it is you are lucky to get 5 games so that comes down to missing one start ... and possibly none depending on your schedule.
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Sunstroke
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« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2018, 03:08:48 pm »

If a hbp is deemed on purpose then the pitcher should have to sit 50-60 games in my opinion.

Will you be relying on the honor system to determine the pitcher's intent? Or will the MLB start using Betazoids at ballgames?

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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2018, 03:19:13 pm »

I agree with Sun Stoke intent is hard to determine.  But MLB pitchers don’t throw HBP by accident.  Make the rule simple, any HBP not inside the strike zone in which the batter did not swing nor move into the ball is a run that clears the bases and eject the pitcher. 
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Phishfan
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« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2018, 04:00:08 pm »

Well I am not comparing baseball to my job.  I think it should be compared to other noncontact sports such as golf, tennis, or racing.  When was the last time you heard of a brawl in those sports or someone throwing a projectile 90mph at someone because they celebrated their last win?

It is time to end beaning someone for hurting your feeling.

Then you shouldn't have quoted me as I was specifically addressing a comment comparing it to a 9 to 5.
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CF DolFan
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« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2018, 04:01:48 pm »

I don't disagree it is a judgment call but some are obvious. Marlins pitcher Jose Urena hitting Atlanta Braves rookie Ronald Acuna Jr. because he kept hitting home runs was pretty obvious. Miami talking heads were even furious about it. I was actually taken back by the response from marlins fans who were upset he did that. He got 6 games so no big deal.
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Phishfan
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« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2018, 04:08:18 pm »

I agree with Sun Stoke intent is hard to determine.  But MLB pitchers don’t throw HBP by accident.  Make the rule simple, any HBP not inside the strike zone in which the batter did not swing nor move into the ball is a run that clears the bases and eject the pitcher. 

Am I understanding you correctly? MLB pitchers hit a batter unintentionally a lot just by pitching inside. You are proposing that anytime a batter is hit the pitcher is thrown out and anyone on base scores or am I not understanding you clearly? Impossible sell if you ask me.

:edited for typo
« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 07:41:16 am by Phishfan » Logged
Fau Teixeira
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« Reply #37 on: August 22, 2018, 04:12:48 pm »

i see a pitcher hitting a batter on purpose the same was as the following:

- a race driver purposefully driving his car into another to crash them
- a football player taking off his helmet and swinging it at another player
- a golfer swinging a club at another golfer

what suspensions would those get? .. make baseball the same
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Sunstroke
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« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2018, 04:27:49 pm »

Am I understanding you correctly? MLB pitchers hit a batter intentionally a lot just by pitching inside. You are proposing that anytime a batter is hit the pitcher is thrown out and anyone on base scores or am I not understanding you clearly? Impossible sell if you ask me.

I agree...that would be overkill of epic proportions.

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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2018, 04:42:04 pm »

Am I understanding you correctly? MLB pitchers hit a batter intentionally a lot just by pitching inside. You are proposing that anytime a batter is hit the pitcher is thrown out and anyone on base scores or am I not understanding you clearly? Impossible sell if you ask me.

If the batter is crowding the plate and had the batter not been hit it would have been a strike, then it is still a strike.  If the batter had not been hit it would have been ruled a ball then it is run.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #40 on: August 22, 2018, 07:48:52 pm »

Will you be relying on the honor system to determine the pitcher's intent?
Officials already determine whether HBP are intentional for purposes of issuing warnings and ejecting players/managers after a HBP occurs.
This is simply adding teeth to that determination.

It's like in the NBA: if a player is repeatedly arguing and scuffling with an opponent, and then "accidentally" commits a flagrant foul on the same opponent, he's probably going to catch a flagrant 2 and get ejected.

Am I understanding you correctly? MLB pitchers hit a batter intentionally a lot just by pitching inside.
I think we all know that is not what we are talking about when we say "intentional HBP."  Benches don't get warned for "pitching inside;" they get warned for throwing directly at opposing players.  (Keep in mind that batters already have a responsibility to attempt to avoid all pitches, even balls.  If the umpire determines that the batter did not make an attempt to avoid a pitch, under current rules that would be a ball, not a HBP; by rule, you cannot be HBP on a strike.)

Quote
You are proposing that anytime a batter is hit the pitcher is thrown out and anyone on base scores or am I not understanding you clearly?
Again, it is not difficult today to figure out when players are hit intentionally, especially since it's usually in a hamfisted attempt to enforce the unwritten rules or some other form of beef. 

If you are suggesting that this could lead to a future where pitchers have to carefully mask their intentional HBP by throwing dodgeable pitches in situations with no clear motive... then that is working as intended.  One cannot be enforcing the unwritten rules if it isn't clear that your target has broken the rules, and if it is clear that they've broken the rules, your intentional HBP will be transparently obvious.  Q.E.D.

P.S. Just to make my own position clear: I'm not proposing that all HBP clear the bases.  Some are honest errors.  I'm saying that the existence of clearly intentional HBP performed as revenge should be scoured from the game.  So if there's a player or team that you've been jawing with, then either a) you should choose another time to claim the inside of the plate or b) you should fall on your sword and eat the run(s)/loss/suspension/fine to prove your point.

There is nothing preventing a pitcher from throwing inside strikes or (avoidable) inside balls at any time.  If you pitch inside and the umpire determines that a hit batsman could have reasonably dodged it, you have nothing to worry about.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 08:17:55 pm by Spider-Dan » Logged

Phishfan
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« Reply #41 on: August 23, 2018, 07:47:11 am »

Hoodie meant exactly what I thought. Any hit batter, with the exception of the batter encroaching the strike zone,  clears the bases and scores runs. That is an insane proposal.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 08:10:35 am by Phishfan » Logged
BuccaneerBrad
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« Reply #42 on: August 23, 2018, 07:53:45 am »

i see a pitcher hitting a batter on purpose the same was as the following:

- a race driver purposefully driving his car into another to crash them
- a football player taking off his helmet and swinging it at another player
- a golfer swinging a club at another golfer

what suspensions would those get? .. make baseball the same

All three of those, plus a hockey player hitting another player in the head with his stick (Marty McSorely) can result in criminal charges.
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DaLittle B
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« Reply #43 on: August 23, 2018, 01:15:46 pm »

We're talking about Hbp,the unwritten B.S. rule of you can't rub it,after you get beaned. Roll Eyes

Part of the problem I have with any rule to do with the HBP,I think in part it has to be based on what type of pitch the batter got hit with.
I think the rule should be adjustable based on the pitch,and speed of the pitch,and where the batter got hit....

(I'm just pulling random suspensions,and random Mphs as Examples,NOT of what I think the penalties should be,other than Starters should have a Min 1 start suspension)

~Change up/slider/curve/etc...Under 86 mph...Suspended 5 games (1 start min for starters) (below the waste,not an immediate ejection,I'd hate to eject a pitcher in the 1st inning for a breaking ball,or change up that accidently hits a guy on the big toe to be ejected))
~2 seam Fastball/cutter/slider/etc....87mph-92mph Suspended 10 games (min 2 starts for starters)
Fastballs 93mph and up...15 games...

~Above 90mph,above the waste/head immediately ejected

~Then take into account,was it above the waste,below the waste,head shots...Add more suspension time...
I think the book needs to be thrown at a pitcher,if the batter hit hasto go on the disabled list...


I get it accidents happen,but pitchers today seem to throw much harder than they used too...
« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 01:19:40 pm by DaLittle B » Logged

MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #44 on: August 23, 2018, 01:45:41 pm »

All three of those, plus a hockey player hitting another player in the head with his stick (Marty McSorely) can result in criminal charges.

And in any setting other than a ball field throwing a baseball at someone for the purpose of hitting them is a crime. 
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