A Study in Team Culture

[Spider-Dan]

At the risk of repeating myself: if the point of this thread is "Winning teams are good and smart, while losing teams are bad and dumb," then fine.  That's an extremely childish approach to "analysis," but it's at least defensible.   However, while you don't seem to want to come out and admit that's what you're doing, any time someone cites an example of a team with a good record acting silly, your only defense is "That team doesn't have a losing record right now."

Right now, the logical takeaway from this thread is "Unserious teams that are 3-7 have a Bad Culture, while unserious teams with a good record are outside the scope of this discussion."  This seems like a whole lot of words to repackage "Teams that are 3-7 have a bad culture."

[Dolfanalyst]

At the risk of repeating myself: if the point of this thread is "Winning teams are good and smart, while losing teams are bad and dumb," then fine.  That's an extremely childish approach to "analysis," but it's at least defensible.   However, while you don't seem to want to come out and admit that's what you're doing, any time someone cites an example of a team with a good record acting silly, your only defense is "That team doesn't have a losing record right now."

Right now, the logical takeaway from this thread is "Unserious teams that are 3-7 have a Bad Culture, while unserious teams with a good record are outside the scope of this discussion."  This seems like a whole lot of words to repackage "Teams that are 3-7 have a bad culture."

Did you not read this post above?

Two teams both have 3-7 records.  One celebrates a single win in the way the Dolphins did in the video in the original post.  The other experiences the win like the Steelers did in the video in the original post.  The two teams likely have significantly different cultures, despite having identical records.

Having a 3-7 record doesn't necessarily mean a team has a bad culture.

[Spider-Dan]

The Steelers in the video you cited weren't 3-7, and you haven't cited ANY video of a 3-7 (or similarly bad team) with a "good culture."
There is a rather obvious reason for this: the only objective way to tell that a losing team "has a good culture" is if they start winning!

But maybe I'm wrong: what losing team can you cite with an aggressive, driven, determined culture, and how did you identify the quality of their culture BEFORE they started winning?
(I will also accept a citation of culture quality for a losing team that never ended up having any success.)

[Dolfanalyst]

The Steelers in the video you cited weren't 3-7, and you haven't cited ANY video of a 3-7 (or similarly bad team) with a "good culture."
There is a rather obvious reason for this: the only objective way to tell that a losing team "has a good culture" is if they start winning!

But maybe I'm wrong: what losing team can you cite with an aggressive, driven, determined culture, and how did you identify the quality of their culture BEFORE they started winning?
(I will also accept a citation of culture quality for a losing team that never ended up having any success.)

I'm comfortable with what the information in the original post illustrates and suggests about variation in team culture in the NFL, and where the 2025 Dolphins are situated in that regard.

Also, many years ago I completed a doctoral dissertation for a committee of professors at a major university, and the credential I earned from that has made me millions of dollars since.  Not interested in doing another one to satisfy a single member of a football forum, when it won't make me a penny.

[Spider-Dan]

"I have a doctorate degree In The Real World and I'm a multimillionaire, so I don't have time for these petty squabbles, which I won't even get paid for"  

I guess if you have no relevant justification left for your argument, might as well start name dropping!  Let me guess... your degree is from a Prestigious University and you also drive a Fancy Car.

[Dolfanalyst]

"I have a doctorate degree In The Real World and I'm a multimillionaire, so I don't have time for these petty squabbles, which I won't even get paid for"  

I guess if you have no relevant justification left for your argument, might as well start name dropping!  Let me guess... your degree is from a Prestigious University and you also drive a Fancy Car.

Apparently on a never-ending mission to put words in my mouth and make me out to be whatever caricature of myself you have in mind.

At this point we've more than revealed your true motivation here.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Take it out of "the locker room" then.  We have no idea how the 2025 Patriots would respond anywhere after a single win that made them 3-7.  Certainly the video of them provided above doesn't tell us that -- they aren't 3-7.

A team whose culture revolves around silliness and a clown show at the expense of the ingredients endemic to the game of football -- aggression, drive, determination, etc. -- cannot be successful at a high level.

Based on everything I know about Vrabel and Mike McDaniel they seem to both have the same player friendly attitude. The Patriot's OC has Belichick's seriousness, but not its head coach. 

[Dolfanalyst]

Based on everything I know about Vrabel and Mike McDaniel they seem to both have the same player friendly attitude. The Patriot's OC has Belichick's seriousness, but not its head coach.

Vrabel and McDaniel are almost nothing alike. If "the team takes on the personality of its coach" as they say, a team playing for Vrabel will have a markedly different "personality" (or culture) from one playing for McDaniel.

Nobody is mistaking Vrabel for McDaniel.  And I'm not talking about their appearance -- I'm talking about their personalities.

[Dolfanalyst]

Based on everything I know about Vrabel and Mike McDaniel they seem to both have the same player friendly attitude. The Patriot's OC has Belichick's seriousness, but not its head coach. 

Coming back to this just to reiterate a bit -- it seems that some folks may underappreciate the fact that almost no one in history in the capacity of NFL head coach has ever had a personality like Mike McDaniel.

Again, the Dolphins are trying to do something here that's never (or perhaps almost never) been done in the NFL -- win big with essentially a clown at head coach.

The organization certainly shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt in that regard -- instead the view should be that McDaniel is substantially more likely to fail than even the typical newly-hired head coach, who despite NOT being a clown is himself likely to fail as well!

[CF DolFan]

I think in this day and age its getting to where only former players can play the tough guy image and still be respected. Dan Campbell and Mike Vrabel earn respect for that alone. Someone like Mike could never get away with that nor could Pete Carroll. They have to be over supportive to get results from players.

[Dolfanalyst]

I think in this day and age its getting to where only former players can play the tough guy image and still be respected. Dan Campbell and Mike Vrabel earn respect for that alone. Someone like Mike could never get away with that nor could Pete Carroll. They have to be over supportive to get results from players.

You can be Pete Carroll (or someone like him) all day long and still be a LONG way from being McDaniel.  Again this guy is way out there where no one has ever been before.

And being "a tough guy" isn't the only alternative.  Andy Reid for example doesn't have the outward persona of a tough guy.  He just isn't a clown.

[CF DolFan]

You can be Pete Carroll (or someone like him) all day long and still be a LONG way from being McDaniel.  Again this guy is way out there where no one has ever been before.

And being "a tough guy" isn't the only alternative.  Andy Reid for example doesn't have the outward persona of a tough guy.  He just isn't a clown.

Andy Reid let a player push him on the sideline without repercussion. He also has been scremed at by his players. I'd say he is a far cry from a tough guy coach and leans more towards the supportive style coach.

[Dolfanalyst]

Andy Reid let a player push him on the sideline without repercussion. He also has been scremed at by his players. I'd say he is a far cry from a tough guy coach and leans more towards the supportive style coach.

I said explicitly Andy Reid doesn't have an outward persona as a tough guy.  He isn't a clown however.  If Andy Reid's team takes on his personality, they won't be clowns.  They'll be something other than clowns.

Again you can line up all the head coaches in NFL history and struggle to find even one who is a clown like McDaniel.

There are all sorts of possibilities other than clown -- it's only McDaniel who fits none of those possibilities.

The spectrum here isn't "tough guy/asshole versus supportive coach."  The spectrum here is "tough guy/asshole versus clown."  One can easily be a supportive coach without being a clown.

[CF DolFan]

I said explicitly Andy Reid doesn't have an outward persona as a tough guy.  He isn't a clown however.  If Andy Reid's team takes on his personality, they won't be clowns.  They'll be something other than clowns.

Again you can line up all the head coaches in NFL history and struggle to find even one who is a clown like McDaniel.

There are all sorts of possibilities other than clown -- it's only McDaniel who fits none of those possibilities.

The spectrum here isn't "tough guy/asshole versus supportive coach."  The spectrum here is "tough guy/asshole versus clown."  One can easily be a supportive coach without being a clown.

If either of those things happened to Mike you would freak. As it is you are willing to overlook the disrespect Andy Reid is willing to put up with because it doesn't fit the narrative you have going. I'm not saying it's right but there are way more variables than being either a fun coach vs tough guy to get results. If it were easy to identify everyone would have great coaches.

[Dolfanalyst]

As it is you are willing to overlook the disrespect Andy Reid is willing to put up with because it doesn't fit the narrative you have going.

No that isn't the reason.  It's because Andy Reid's personality overall isn't so incompatible with the game of football that if his team takes on his personality it won't be regularly outdueled by opposing teams whose head coaches and personalities (i.e., culture) are far more compatible with football and with winning.  Consequently Andy Reid has a bigger margin for error than Mike McDaniel.

Moreover, the "narrative I have going" is no different from this one:

https://x.com/FinsXtra/status/1979955001868042597?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1979955001868042597%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=