It's official: Hillary vs. Trump

[Spider-Dan]

I think (pre-politics) people "liked" Trump in the same sense that they "like" Simon Cowell; they liked him for being an arrogant jerk.  I don't say that as an insult... as a showman, that was his brand, and it was a successful brand.

Prior to his involvement in politics, what was Trump's signature line?  I don't think I'm being unfair when I say that being harshly uncaring was his trademark schtick.

[CF DolFan]

I'm not sure if your being serious but Trump has been in the public eye waayyy before the tv show. In fact, that's what got him the tv show. He was popular guy who a lot of "liberal" people supported.

watch this video and you'll see that in the interviews. You'll also see that he has been interested in politics a long time.
https://youtu.be/OCabT_O0YSM

[Spider-Dan]

For a 30-minute video, sorry, you'll have to provide the summary.  And I do understand that Trump was already famous for being rich, not unlike Mark Cuban.  But he didn't start having stuff like dolls that recite his sayings until "You're Fired" became his catchphrase.

I would also like to reemphasize my previous point: when someone talks about how terrible of a candidate Hillary is, I just want them to explain how she is worse than her husband, or even Obama.  For the last 8 years I've heard nothing but how Obama is The Worst President in American History, how he's a tyrant that's trying to destroy the country.  And the list of grievances against Bill Clinton is just as long, full of attacks on his character and moral fiber.  So how is Hillary any worse?

It seems easy enough to me; I'd say GWB was our worst President since either Nixon or Hoover (depending on how heavily you weigh intentions vs. competence) but Dubya is practically Lincoln compared to Trump.  After 9/11, Dubya easily could have demonized all Muslims as Trump is doing now, but he made a specific effort to make sure that we did not go down such a road.   And I never saw GWB insult POWs, or encourage his supporters to assault protestors, or insist that a American-born judge is unfit to serve because of his race.

For all her faults, Hillary is a standard politician.  Trump is not.  The attempt to equivocate the two is, in my opinion, the thing that will be most difficult for Republicans to erase after this election is over.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

There-in lies the difference as I'm not basing it on his current political trash talking. I'm really giving him the benefit of the doubt and basing it on how he's run his businesses and dealt with people in the past.

Lets assume Trump is honest and sincere.
  
(1) A wall we can't afford that won't stop the majority of all illegal immigration.  (People who enter the country legally and overstay their visa)

(2) Pulling out of NATO.

(3) Increased nuclear proliferation.  

(4) A huge tax cut for the rich that drives up the deficit.  

(5) Killing of terrorist families in violation of international treaties.

(6) Blatant use of torcher in violation of international treaties.

(7) An unconstitutional religious test on immigration.

( An unconstitutional limiting of the freedom of the press.

(9) A law compelling people to say "Marry Xmas" instead of "Happy Holidays" which would be overturned on the ground it violates the Constitution.        

(10) The arresting of political opponents.

(11) A curtailing of the 1st amendment by requiring the defendant to have the defendant prove actual truth in a slander case instead of the plaintiff needing to prove falsehood.    

[Sunstroke]

There-in lies the difference as I'm not basing it on his current political trash talking.

So, everything a candidate says on the campaign trail is trash talking? I thought it was, you know, campaigning. You're not only not basing your opinion on all of the psychotic nonsense coming out of his mouth...you're ignoring it completely.

I'm really giving him the benefit of the doubt and basing it on how he's run his businesses and dealt with people in the past.

Basing it on how he's run his businesses? You mean the way he inherited his original bankroll? Do you mean the way he manipulates and twists the tax laws? Do you mean his penchant for filing bankruptcies? Or, do you mean the way he stiffs small business contractors for the money he owes them?

There is no logical equation that adds up to Trump being a good decent tolerable president.

[Spider-Dan]

I think the nuclear angle is being undersold.  I have ~100% confidence that the United States of America would survive a Hillary Presidency, or a Romney Presidency, or a Rubio Presidency.  I do not have the same confidence that it would survive a Trump Presidency.

He is exactly the kind of person to think, "Why are we wasting all this time on ISIS?  Let's just nuke them and be done with it," at which point Russia or any other power will also have the green light to switch to nuclear warfare.  This is not dissimilar to how our preemptive war in Iraq gave Russia the rationale for invading Georgia and Crimea without provocation.

[CF DolFan]

For a 30-minute video, sorry, you'll have to provide the summary.  And I do understand that Trump was already famous for being rich, not unlike Mark Cuban.  But he didn't start having stuff like dolls that recite his sayings until "You're Fired" became his catchphrase.

It's interview clips so you can watch a few to get an idea of what I'm talking about. You don't have to watch the whole video but I'm sure you watched long enough to figure that out.

I would also like to reemphasize my previous point: when someone talks about how terrible of a candidate Hillary is, I just want them to explain how she is worse than her husband, or even Obama.  For the last 8 years I've heard nothing but how Obama is The Worst President in American History, how he's a tyrant that's trying to destroy the country.  And the list of grievances against Bill Clinton is just as long, full of attacks on his character and moral fiber.  So how is Hillary any worse?

Hillary lies at every turn to deal with anything uncomfortable.  Far as I know Bill is known for lying about having sex but stood by his politics. In fact many people ignored all the sex claims because they liked his politics.

It seems easy enough to me; I'd say GWB was our worst President since either Nixon or Hoover (depending on how heavily you weigh intentions vs. competence) but Dubya is practically Lincoln compared to Trump.  After 9/11, Dubya easily could have demonized all Muslims as Trump is doing now, but he made a specific effort to make sure that we did not go down such a road.   And I never saw GWB insult POWs, or encourage his supporters to assault protestors, or insist that a American-born judge is unfit to serve because of his race.

Wors??? Ever hear about a guuy named Jimmy Carter? If W was so bad he wouldn't have been re-elected but I do agree that Donald has said some dumb things.

For all her faults, Hillary is a standard politician.  Trump is not. 

And this is exactly what people like about Trump. Agree with him or disagree with him he's genuine and isn't looking to line his pockets to pass laws. He isn't afraid to offend people if he feels it is the correct answer to give and we are so starved in this country to get rid of political correctness that many people don't really care what he says.

[Sunstroke]

For all her faults, Hillary is a standard politician.  Trump is not. 

And this is exactly what people like about Trump.

Sweet mercy... A lot of people hate lawyers, but if you have to go to court, who do you want representing you? Johnnie Cochran or Ronald Fucking McDonald?

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Agree with him or disagree with him

disagree on most.

  he's genuine

not sure if i agree with this.  given how much he has flip flopped it is hard to call him genuine.  It is one thing to have your opinions evolve over years (such as clinton on gay marriage) it is another to change you position multiple times in the same weekend.

and isn't looking to line his pockets to pass laws.

Totally disagree.  His tax plan does little for most people but helps billionares HUGE

He isn't afraid to offend people if he feels it is the correct answer to give and we are so starved in this country to get rid of political correctness that many people don't really care what he says.

I will agree with that he doesn't care who he offends.  A war hero like John McCain.  The Kahn family.  Our third largest trading partner who we share a large boarder with.  Our allies in Nato.  Members of his own party and every congressional leader on both sides of the isle he would have to work with if elected.  All Mexicans.  All Muslims.  Etc. 

[Fau Teixeira]

i Won't concede that Hillary is a compulsive liar either. THat's Fox News talking points. I haven't seen or heard anything from her that supports that claim.

This looks to me to be a case of Fox crying wolf and story becoming fact.

Kinda like the midnight ride of Paul Revere.

[Spider-Dan]

Hillary lies at every turn to deal with anything uncomfortable.  Far as I know Bill is known for lying about having sex but stood by his politics.

Here's Wikipedia's entry for Clinton Administration controversies.

There are 49 items on that list, all of which were allegations of legal or ethical wrongdoing (and not simply "convtroversial" policy proposals that were debated heavily), including Whitewater, Travelgate, and Filegate.

I'll say it again: Hillary is a fairly standard politician, no more corrupt or dishonest than her husband, or any number of other Presidential candidates in previous cycles.

Wors??? Ever hear about a guuy named Jimmy Carter? If W was so bad he wouldn't have been re-elected but I do agree that Donald has said some dumb things.

I don't evaluate how good a President was by whether they win re-election.  I think GHWB was a far better President than his son, yet he lost and GWB won.  Nixon was the most personally corrupt President in the history of the republic (as opposed to having corrupt cronies, like Grant and Harding) and Nixon won reelection.

Jimmy Carter was incompetent, but in boring, mundane ways; he wasn't spectacularly incompetent enough to start a war of choice while in the middle of an unfinished war that he started less than 2 years prior, nor did he preside over the worst economic collapse in over 75 years.  Jimmy Carter was about a D+; GWB was a low F.

[pondwater]

It is one thing to have your opinions evolve over years (such as clinton on gay marriage)

No sir, that's called lying. She will say anything to get what she wants. Your messiah Obama thinks the same judging from his campaign ads, "she will say anything and change nothing". Meaning she's a liar. I guess her opinion of her welcoming ceremony with children evolved into a hot insertion under sniper fire. You gotta be fucking kidding me.

 I honestly cannot believe how far left this site is. Quite entertaining, haha.

[CF DolFan]

So, everything a candidate says on the campaign trail is trash talking? I thought it was, you know, campaigning. You're not only not basing your opinion on all of the psychotic nonsense coming out of his mouth...you're ignoring it completely.

Basing it on how he's run his businesses? You mean the way he inherited his original bankroll? Do you mean the way he manipulates and twists the tax laws? Do you mean his penchant for filing bankruptcies? Or, do you mean the way he stiffs small business contractors for the money he owes them?

There is no logical equation that adds up to Trump being a good decent tolerable president.

I am ignoring it just as you guys ignore how repulsive Hillary is.  Neither candidate is a great person although I'd argue if Trump would keep his rhetoric down during his campaigning he looked a whole lot better.

He has hundreds of successful businesses and a few bankruptcies ... which is a perfectly legal tool to use. this means his failure rate is very small and non-existent if you admit that bankruptcies are just a part of doing business.

[CF DolFan]

i Won't concede that Hillary is a compulsive liar either. THat's Fox News talking points. I haven't seen or heard anything from her that supports that claim.

This looks to me to be a case of Fox crying wolf and story becoming fact.

Kinda like the midnight ride of Paul Revere.

Except when she is caught lying on other networks.

https://youtu.be/bQO3KwHh7gY

https://youtu.be/IvTJYkTq8BI

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Except when she is caught lying on other networks.

Has she told falsehoods?.....yes. 

At a greater rate than Bill Clinton, George W Bush, George H Bush, Ronald Reagan, Mitt Romney?  No!

And her frequency of false statements pales in comparison to the frequency in which false statements leave Trumps mouth.  So to that extent the ideas she is trustworthy than other politicians is a Repub myth.

She is not as honest as her opponent in the primary.  But she is more trustworthy than her opponent in the general election.