Shooting on the set of Rust

[CF DolFan]

I don't see this going political but I've been proven wrong before. LOL

I'm just curious ... how many people knew they use real guns on set? For whatever reason I thought that went out a long time ago. Even as a kid I just imagined them being basically a better version of a cap gun. It was odd to me when Brandon Lee got killed ( we all thought it was a hit) bur this latest instance is even stranger to me. 

[Dolphster]

I don't see this going political but I've been proven wrong before. LOL

I'm just curious ... how many people knew they use real guns on set? For whatever reason I thought that went out a long time ago. Even as a kid I just imagined them being basically a better version of a cap gun. It was odd to me when Brandon Lee got killed ( we all thought it was a hit) bur this latest instance is even stranger to me. 

I have every belief that this will go political because everything goes political.  lol

But yeah, I had been thinking the same thing that with all the lifelike reproductions of firearms available, why would they have the real deal on a movie set?   

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I am semi okay with real guns. Although, I agree probably unnecessary with realistic replicas.   Real ammo is mind blowing.  What possible purpose could that have?

[EDGECRUSHER]

I knew some guns were real with blanks and figured they just had some fake guns too for scenes where they wouldn't be fired.

The "Armorer" on set was just some 23 year old kid who had no idea what she was doing, probably was hired to save money on a small production. What real bullets were doing on the set, I have no idea. That's just insane.

[Dolphster]

 Real ammo is mind blowing.  What possible purpose could that have?

My sentiments exactly.  I know nothing about the film industry so maybe I'm missing something.  But I can see absolutely no reason why live ammo should be on a set. 

[pondwater]

Besides the live ammo issue. I check and/or clear any gun that I pick up or that comes into my possession. It should be standard practice for anyone who handles firearms. Actors should be taught and instructed to check the firearm before it is used. Baldwin is ultimately responsible for this on several levels.

[Dave Gray]

I have been struggling with even understanding this, so I've done a fair amount of research.


So, with "real guns", here's what's going on...

You have prop guns or fake guns for all kinds of stuff, like if a character is going to run with a gun or wave it around and do stuff other than shoot it.  Often, these are real guns that have been fully disarmed where they don't have the mechanics to fire anymore.  And for stunts and distance shots, they are completely made of wood or rubber.

You use real, working guns with "blanks" when you are firing and want something realistic because you still get muzzle flash, smoke if desired, but I think most importantly, the gun gives kick still.  It looks realistic in the way the body take the pressure from it.  

And a blank is a real bullet, but without the projectile part.  It can be done a few different ways, but I believe one of them is by using actual bullets and removing part of them.  But it's still a casing and powder and stuff..maybe even fragments of the original projectile, if done improperly.  And it can still eject something, but not something that's going to kill you at range.  But if that thing get accidentally fired too close, it can damage you.  That's why there are other safety procedures in place.  Like, if you're firing a gun into the camera, you use a shield of bullet-proof glass in front of the camera-man, for example.

There are also other general safety things (and other consistency things) that keep a set safe.  Like, if you're on a set and there's a glass...don't touch the fucking glass unless it's your job, no matter if you're the star or the director or not.  It's someone's job to move that glass and know where it is and where it supposed to be.  This is true x100 for weapons.  Nobody is supposed to be responsible for a weapon except the person holding it and up to that point, it's the film's armorer.

But...

Like with all industries, when shit gets tough, we cut corners.  And those whittling down of safety procedures plus the demands of getting things done quickly cause human error and mistakes.


Alec Baldwin the actor is zero percent responsible for this accident.
Alec Baldwin the productor may be partially responsible, because it sounds like the safety protocols were thin at best and the armorer on set wasn't qualified.  It's a case where higher ups either knew or should have known that there was an unsafe environment and risked it anyway.

All this said, I support the use of real guns and blanks if it is the vision of the director, though I wouldn't care if some directors wanted to use CG muzzle flash.  These incidents are rare enough and there are safety procedures that make this safe when followed.  It is only when those procedures are ignored that it becomes dangerous.

[Dolphster]

Wow, very interesting, Dave.  I had no idea about all that!   

[Phishfan]

Gun safety 101, any time you handle a weapon you treat it as if it were loaded. Zero responsibility is a big statement.

[Dave Gray]

Gun safety 101, any time you handle a weapon you treat it as if it were loaded.

That's true for you and me, but not for actors.

You don't treat a prop gun like it's loaded or else you wouldn't be pointing it at other actors.  This is an oversimplification.

If we're assessing blame, it's the armorer mostly, then the producers because there were safety issues already brought up and ignored, and then (not to victim blame, but) the deceased, who should've insisted on the bullet shield since the actions were toward camera.  Baldwin the actor isn't responsible for making sure the gun he's holding isn't operational.  There's literally a person on the set whose sole job is that.

[Spider-Dan]

You don't treat a prop gun like it's loaded or else you wouldn't be pointing it at other actors.

Great point, Dave.

It is not reasonable to tell an actor "Treat every gun like it's loaded" when that actor is preparing to fire said gun at one of his coworkers as part of the script.

[Dolphster]

Great point, Dave.

It is not reasonable to tell an actor "Treat every gun like it's loaded" when that actor is preparing to fire said gun at one of his coworkers as part of the script.

Yeah, good point by you and Dave both on that.  For all of us, the rule of "treat every weapon like it is loaded" is very true.  But on a movie set where an actor is supposed to fire a "gun" at someone as it states in the script, that obviously won't work. 

[CF DolFan]

Alec Baldwin the actor is zero percent responsible for this accident.

I don't know that that is true. I've seen interviews where armorers have said that it's also the actors job to make sure it isn't loaded and just today I saw where Alec is directly being sued (besides being a producer) because the scene did not call for him to fire the weapon but he took it upon himself to do so.

[CF DolFan]

It is not reasonable to tell an actor "Treat every gun like it's loaded" when that actor is preparing to fire said gun at one of his coworkers as part of the script.

They don't actually point it at other actors since Brandon Lee was killed. The camera makes it look like it. I'm guessing that's actually how Baldwin hit non actors.

[pondwater]

Great point, Dave.

It is not reasonable to tell an actor "Treat every gun like it's loaded" when that actor is preparing to fire said gun at one of his coworkers as part of the script.

Anytime a firearm is involved the person handling the gun is the person responsible for the gun. Baldwin killed someone through his own laziness and stupidity.