Shooting on the set of Rust

[Phishfan]

It's a fully functional gun on a set where I heard staffers actively fired live rounds with that particular weapon in the down time. It's moronic to think anyone should handle a weapon on that set and not check it themself.

[Dave Gray]

It's a fully functional gun on a set where I heard staffers actively fired live rounds with that particular weapon in the down time. It's moronic to think anyone should handle a weapon on that set and not check it themself.

What are they checking?  The blanks are still bullets.  They just don't have a projectile.  If the error was that the gun had unmodded bullets in it that were supposed to be blanks, the actor wouldn't know that by checking. 

[Spider-Dan]

Every single actor in the film industry should also become an expert on firearms, able to immediately distinguish between blanks and live ammo in all types of guns.
This is a reasonable suggestion, and I am not a crackpot.

In all seriousness, I cannot believe there are people who believe that - on a set where there is a trained expert specifically hired to manage the use of firearms - individual actors are responsible for training themselves on the safety precautions on these weapons.  Do you also believe that actors need to become experts in electrical wiring?  Or pyrotechnics?

[pondwater]

What are they checking?  The blanks are still bullets.  They just don't have a projectile.  If the error was that the gun had unmodded bullets in it that were supposed to be blanks, the actor wouldn't know that by checking.  

It was a rehearsal, so the chamber should have been empty. You don't need blanks for a rehearsal, hell you don't even need to pull the trigger during a rehearsal. Much less point it at members of the film crew. He should have checked the chamber when he took possession of the weapon.

Also, blanks can and have killed people. I remember one particular intendent from the 80's where that pretty boy guy on that show was fucking around and killed himself with a blank.

Edit: Jon-Erik Hexum was his name on the show Cover Up

[pondwater]

Every single actor in the film industry should also become an expert on firearms, able to immediately distinguish between blanks and live ammo in all types of guns.
This is a reasonable suggestion, and I am not a crackpot.

You don't need to be an expert to check the action of a weapon. You also don't need to be an expert to distinguish between a blank and a live round. It's literally something you can learn in 30 minutes.

In all seriousness, I cannot believe there are people who believe that - on a set where there is a trained expert specifically hired to manage the use of firearms - individual actors are responsible for training themselves on the safety precautions on these weapons.  Do you also believe that actors need to become experts in electrical wiring?  Or pyrotechnics?

Actors aren't in direct control of electrical wiring or pyrotechnics so your comparison is silly. In all seriousness, I cannot believe there are people who have little to zero experience with handling firearms that argue against gun safety for people handling firearms. I guess it's a good thing that you people are anti gun, because you don't need to be in the same room with a firearm.

[Spider-Dan]

You don't need to be an expert to check the action of a weapon. You also don't need to be an expert to distinguish between a blank and a live round. It's literally something you can learn in 30 minutes.

Then you're arguing against your own point, because an ACTUAL expert has to be required to verify it anyway!

Alec Baldwin, non-expert in firearms who "learned in 30 minutes" how to check the action of a weapon or distinguish between a blank and a live round, cannot be responsible for ensuring the safety of the weapon on the set!  So what's the point in having some actor say, "It's OK, I watched a YouTube video on how to make sure there's no round in the chamber" when we literally cannot accept their word as sufficient and an expert has to double check them anyway?  It's insane and a complete waste of time.

In all seriousness, I cannot believe there are people who have little to zero experience with handling firearms that argue against gun safety for people handling firearms.

You're not talking about gun safety.
You're talking about gun safety theater.

This is what you get when you have laymen "experts" who think the difference between themselves and actual experts is not really that big of a deal.

[CF DolFan]

What are they checking?  The blanks are still bullets.  They just don't have a projectile.  If the error was that the gun had unmodded bullets in it that were supposed to be blanks, the actor wouldn't know that by checking. 

Any blanks I've ever seen are crimped on the end and doesn't have the actual bullet. It looks like an extension of the shell.

[Spider-Dan]

So if Angelina Jolie looks at those cartridges and says, "OK, we're good to go," then this means... exactly nothing, because the weapons expert on set still has to clear it anyway.

I mean, this is a shitstorm now.  But can you imagine how much worse it would be if turned out that they didn't even consult the armorer because Alec Baldwin said the gun was fine?  The insurance costs for the next film from this company would cost more than the film.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Any blanks I've ever seen are crimped on the end and doesn't have the actual bullet. It looks like an extension of the shell.

So you want the actor to unload the blanks and reload them?

I am all for gun safety.  But this fuck up occurred by the armorer, not the actor. Alex Baldwin the producer might have screwed up in getting an inexperienced armorer.  But the expert has one job and fucked it up, not the actor. 

[Dave Gray]

It's not just the armorer.  ....she was not qualified, but the producers were warned about safety concerned and several people had walked off the set over safety issues.  So, this was something that was reported (not necessarily the gun stuff, but that corners were cut for safety, in general).

That is a producer's job to make sure that safety protocols are followed by responsible people.  I'd say that's even more true if formal complaints were made and ignored.

So, Baldwin is to blame for some of that, probably.  (And not to make excuses, because it's his responsibility), but sometimes producer credits are honorary titles and they don't have actual responsibilities, but are more about ownership of franchise rights and stuff like that. 

Either way, I don't think it's the fault of the actor firing the weapon, though.

[Phishfan]

What are they checking?  The blanks are still bullets.  They just don't have a projectile.  If the error was that the gun had unmodded bullets in it that were supposed to be blanks, the actor wouldn't know that by checking. 

This just shows your ignorance on the topic. There is a very distinct visual difference, a live round has a projectile in the end.

[Phishfan]

So if Angelina Jolie looks at those cartridges and says, "OK, we're good to go," then this means... exactly nothing, because the weapons expert on set still has to clear it anyway.

I mean, this is a shitstorm now.  But can you imagine how much worse it would be if turned out that they didn't even consult the armorer because Alec Baldwin said the gun was fine?  The insurance costs for the next film from this company would cost more than the film.

The Spider spin, no trhread is complete without it. You are making a strawman argument. Not one person has suggested an actor clear a weapon instead of an armorer. What is being said is that just like everyone else in the world the actor should be responsible for assuming the weapon he is handed is loaded and double checking it. Gun safety 101.

[Spider-Dan]

This just shows your ignorance on the topic. There is a very distinct visual difference, a live round has a projectile in the end.

Hoodie's point makes this basically irrelevant.

Do you want each actor unloading and reloading each weapon every time they handle it so they can personally verify all of the ammunition in it?

[Phishfan]

Hoodie's point makes this basically irrelevant.

Do you want each actor unloading and reloading each weapon every time they handle it so they can personally verify all of the ammunition in it?

Yes. Hoodie's point is stupid when discussing gun safety. I find it very humorous that the people who speak up the most about gun regulation are for looser gun safety practices. It's almost as laughable as supporting the death penalty but wanting abortion illegal.

[Spider-Dan]

What is being said is that just like everyone else in the world the actor should be responsible for assuming the weapon he is handed is loaded and double checking it. Gun safety 101.

What does "gun safety 101" say about pointing a gun at something you don't intend to kill and pulling the trigger?

Please stop acting like normal firearm precautions are relevant to a film production in which people are intentionally firing guns at other people they don't want to hurt.  If the actors followed "gun safety 101," they wouldn't be shooting at each other.