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Author Topic: Shooting on the set of Rust  (Read 4911 times)
Spider-Dan
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« Reply #45 on: November 18, 2021, 02:55:23 pm »

When an actor has to have a fight scene with swords, they are given sword training and then they use fake swords.
When an actor has to have a fight scene with boxing, they go to boxing class to learn how to box.
They take this training to be able to look better for the camera while swordfighting or boxing, not as a bootleg backup safety valve to protect the cast and crew.

Once more: an actor who takes a short gun training will not be qualified to certify the safety of a weapon.  There is zero point to having someone "check" a weapon when they literally cannot certify the weapon as safe.

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pondwater
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« Reply #46 on: November 18, 2021, 03:01:12 pm »

"Gun safety is really simple and straightforward... why are you trying to make it sound difficult?" said the commenter in a thread about an accidental firearm death on set, after two OTHER instances of accidental firearm deaths on set were cited.

Interesting that you believe you are representing the "pro-safety" side of this discussion.  In this instance of an underqualified armorer making a mistake that led to an accidental death, your "pro-safety" position is NOT that there should be more stringent qualifications for armorers.  Nor is it that there should be a second armorer to double-check the first.  No, YOUR safety-minded solution is that the cast and crew should put their lives in the hands of... "shithead accused racist" Alec Baldwin and his ability to check a gun.

Then - because gun safety is "no more difficult than making a sandwich" - we can consider this problem resolved going forward.

Yes, this is the pro-safety position.
If you say so clown 🤡🤡🤡. You're probably the least qualified person on this site to give advice on firearms. Go play with a gun or something....

Once more: an actor who takes a short gun training will not be qualified to certify the safety of a weapon.  There is zero point to having someone "check" a weapon when they literally cannot certify the weapon as safe.
Yet millions of Americans from all walks of life do it everyday without specialized training nor being a certified in anything. Gotcha 👌👌👌
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #47 on: November 18, 2021, 03:30:27 pm »

A hit dog will holler!

You could have saved a lot of time by just opening with "Experts aren't necessary, this is America."
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Dave Gray
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« Reply #48 on: November 18, 2021, 04:35:01 pm »

Are we talking about how things should be or how they are?

It is my understanding that currently, on the way a film set works, it's the armorer's job to provide a safe weapons environment and its producers jobs to make sure that those efforts are hampered in the interest of efficiency.  As I understand it now, the actor has little more than "common sense" and isn't expected to have a working understanding of firearms.

Maybe that will change, but that's the jist of it.

So, based on that understanding Alec Baldwin, the producer bears responsibility, under current norms for a producer but Alec Baldwin the actor, does not -- speaking what I would expect from a legal standpoint.
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masterfins
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« Reply #49 on: November 18, 2021, 04:36:15 pm »

IMO you can't take everyday life usage of a gun, and translate it to a movie/TV set where there are protocols in place for the safe handling of weapons.  Because of those protocols there has not been a shooting death on a set in 30 years.  The problem here is that the protocols were not followed.  First off the crew should not have been off shooting live rounds with guns that were being used in the production during their downtime.  Second, where was the armorer?  The news reports I've read said the assistant director grabbed the gun off a cart, declared out loud "Cold Gun", before handing the weapon to Baldwin.  Was the armorer standing there by the cart? Did she tell the A.D. that it was a "Cold Gun"?  Thirdly, it is protocol for the A.D. to double check the weapon after receiving it from the armorer, and before giving it to the actor, which was obviously not done - or he didn't know what he was doing.  So, the gun should have been checked twice before it even reached Baldwin's hand.  Therefore, I can't see blaming Baldwin, as the actor, for this shooting.  I gotta agree with Spider on this one.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2021, 04:55:45 pm by masterfins » Logged
masterfins
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« Reply #50 on: November 18, 2021, 05:04:51 pm »

Also, typically live ammunition is forbidden on a set, who brought that live ammunition on set and had possession of it also bares a large part of the blame.  If the people in charge of the production were aware of this live ammunition on set, and let it occur, they are also partially at fault for this tragedy; at least civilly if not criminally.
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Pappy13
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« Reply #51 on: November 18, 2021, 06:28:47 pm »

Wow, just saw this. These are some pretty hefty allegations.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/alec-baldwin-intentionally-fired-the-shot-that-killed-halyna-hutchins-and-chose-to-play-russian-roulette-with-a-loaded-gun-in-violation-of-the-script-new-lawsuit-claims/ar-AAQPvoP?ocid=msedgntp
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #52 on: November 18, 2021, 07:07:13 pm »

seems a bit over the top.  was there mistakes and negligence- yes.  Intentional - give me a break.
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Pappy13
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« Reply #53 on: November 18, 2021, 09:17:34 pm »

seems a bit over the top.  was there mistakes and negligence- yes.  Intentional - give me a break.
Well that's the claim. You know how it goes you claim the worst and then you haggle over the details, but if there's at least some truth to it, then it does look pretty bad.
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masterfins
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« Reply #54 on: November 23, 2021, 01:35:35 am »


Although I would agree with some of the statements, mostly it's over the top B.S., by none other than Gloria Allred.  I discount anything that woman says by about 60%, she's always out for the big payday, regardless of the truth.
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Dolphster
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« Reply #55 on: December 02, 2021, 09:52:41 am »

Yesterday, in an interview with George Stephanopoulos, Baldwin said, "The trigger wasn't pulled. I didn't pull the trigger.  I would never point a gun at anyone and pull the trigger, never."

Um, dude.  You've had over two weeks to come up with a cover story and that is what you decided was your best bet?  To say that the gun shot itself?   I'm sure he didn't know that there was a live round in the chamber.  Saying the gun shot itself is the kind of explanation that you give in a panic two seconds after it happened.  It isn't the kind of explanation that you give when you have had two weeks to come up with a cover story.  I suppose celebrities aren't the smartest people on the planet. 
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CF DolFan
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« Reply #56 on: December 02, 2021, 10:58:43 am »

Yesterday, in an interview with George Stephanopoulos, Baldwin said, "The trigger wasn't pulled. I didn't pull the trigger.  I would never point a gun at anyone and pull the trigger, never."

Um, dude.  You've had over two weeks to come up with a cover story and that is what you decided was your best bet?  To say that the gun shot itself?   I'm sure he didn't know that there was a live round in the chamber.  Saying the gun shot itself is the kind of explanation that you give in a panic two seconds after it happened.  It isn't the kind of explanation that you give when you have had two weeks to come up with a cover story.  I suppose celebrities aren't the smartest people on the planet. 
Yes. I can't quite understand where he going with that unless he is wanting the MSM to back him up on it. If that happens people will buy into it regardless of how dumb it is.
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pondwater
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« Reply #57 on: December 02, 2021, 12:36:45 pm »

Yesterday, in an interview with George Stephanopoulos, Baldwin said, "The trigger wasn't pulled. I didn't pull the trigger.  I would never point a gun at anyone and pull the trigger, never."

Um, dude.  You've had over two weeks to come up with a cover story and that is what you decided was your best bet?  To say that the gun shot itself?   I'm sure he didn't know that there was a live round in the chamber.  Saying the gun shot itself is the kind of explanation that you give in a panic two seconds after it happened.  It isn't the kind of explanation that you give when you have had two weeks to come up with a cover story.  I suppose celebrities aren't the smartest people on the planet. 
Guns don't just go off unless there is a malfunction, which is kind of rare. I'm more than certain that they will strip and function check the weapon to rule out a malfunction, if they haven't already.

In my entire life there has been only one instance where I personally know someone who claimed a malfunction caused a ND. We were seniors in high school and he shot himself in the leg with a Beretta 92.  He said he didn't pull the trigger and that he just tapped the side of the pistol on his upper thigh and it went off. I always figured his story was bullshit. Maybe there was a defect of some type or maybe Beretta just wanted to avoid litigation. In any case, he got a 6 figure settlement from Beretta.
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CF DolFan
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« Reply #58 on: December 02, 2021, 01:46:29 pm »

Weird that Baldwin is getting supported in his "I didn't pull the trigger" theory. They going as far as saying his finger wasn't ever on the trigger. I've been around guns since I was a kid. I've been around misfires as well as have fired a gun that I didn't think was loaded. I've seen some things but I've never seen a gun fire where someone or something didn't touch the trigger or hammer. Anyone else witness something like that? 
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pondwater
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« Reply #59 on: December 02, 2021, 03:06:23 pm »

Weird that Baldwin is getting supported in his "I didn't pull the trigger" theory. They going as far as saying his finger wasn't ever on the trigger. I've been around guns since I was a kid. I've been around misfires as well as have fired a gun that I didn't think was loaded. I've seen some things but I've never seen a gun fire where someone or something didn't touch the trigger or hammer. Anyone else witness something like that? 
After seeing the type of pistol he was using, there are ways the firearm could discharge unintentionally. It looks to be a replica of a single action old west type revolver. It kind of depends on if it has a transfer bar/hammer block safety like newer revolvers or the hammer had an exposed firing pin like originally designed in the 1800s.

If it has the transfer bar/hammer block type safety the trigger would have to be pulled for the gun to fire.

If it has the "old west" type hammer with built in firing pin, the gun will fire if:
1. Hammer down on a live round and the back of the hammer is hit with enough force to ignite the primer. Not likely to happen in Baldwin's situation
2. Hammer manually cocked and a defect causes the hammer to drop on a live round. Again, possible but not likely
3. Hammer manually cocked and trigger pulled. Most likely cause.

I would say a bad trigger job could have made the trigger pull too light and a light touch caused to fire. But since they had been using the pistol with actual live ammunition, Baldwin would have somewhat known the weight of the trigger pull. So unless they come out and find a defect in the action, he's lying to cover his ass. Even with a defect that makes the hammer fall, most single action revolvers have a half cock notch position to keep the hammer from striking the firing pin should the full cock notch on the hammer fail.
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