MIA's 2022 1st round draft pick and the PHI trade

[EDGECRUSHER]

It is dumb as hell to blame a team for not tanking for a player.  GM, sure he can do what he can to tank the team for a long term future, it's his job to find the best players or stock up for the future, which is what Grier did.  If a head coach or players are tanking, they deserve to be fired immediately.

This is also very true, but as fans we can root for the tank. I mean really, what is the difference between 2-14 and 4-12? Sometimes it's better to be the worst, I'm sure the Bengals are grateful they were the worst team in 2019. Where would they be right now if they won 2 more games that year? Probably still around 3-5 wins a season.

[Dolfanalyst]

It is dumb as hell to blame a team for not tanking for a player.  GM, sure he can do what he can to tank the team for a long term future, it's his job to find the best players or stock up for the future, which is what Grier did.  If a head coach or players are tanking, they deserve to be fired immediately.

I wasn't commenting on whether teams should tank.  My point was only that if they were tanking, they should've tanked completely and not won five games.  I suspect that what happened is that they made personnel moves without the intent of winning, but that the players and Flores did the best they could and won five games because of it.

You're not going to tell a head coach and the players to lose on purpose, but you can construct the team personnel-wise such that it has a very low probability of winning even with their best efforts.  I suspect they did the latter, but that Flores and company's best efforts got them five wins.

[EDGECRUSHER]

I wasn't commenting on whether teams should tank.  My point was only that if they were tanking, they should've tanked completely and not won five games.  I suspect that what happened is that they made personnel moves without the intent of winning, but that the players and Flores did the best they could and won five games because of it.

You're not going to tell a head coach and the players to lose on purpose, but you can construct the team personnel-wise such that it has a very low probability of winning even with their best efforts.  I suspect they did the latter, but that Flores and company's best efforts got them five wins.

I put the "blame" on Fitzpatrick the most. The guy is a great leader and teammate.

[DenverFinFan]

I put the "blame" on Fitzpatrick the most. The guy is a great leader and teammate.

Max Kellerman said it best, Fitzpatrick is just good enough to ruin your franchise.

[ArtieChokePhin]

It is dumb as hell to blame a team for not tanking for a player.  GM, sure he can do what he can to tank the team for a long term future, it's his job to find the best players or stock up for the future, which is what Grier did.  If a head coach or players are tanking, they deserve to be fired immediately.

A simple solution for tanking would be to hold an NBA style lottery for the first three picks and involve all non-playoff teams

[pondwater]

Max Kellerman said it best, Fitzpatrick is just good enough to ruin your franchise.

Actually, I think he's a free agent and I would bring him back to replace BBQ Brisket as a backup to Tua. Fitz has to understand that at this point in his career that he's only a backup. And actually, in hindsight, if he would have stayed with the Dolphins as backup instead of going to Washington he would have played more games and been in the playoffs instead of sitting on IR all year. How many of the 6 games we lost with Brisket would we have won with Fitz? I would say at minimum 2.

[EDGECRUSHER]

A simple solution for tanking would be to hold an NBA style lottery for the first three picks and involve all non-playoff teams

I honestly don't think the NFL players tank. Management may try to but whether you win or lose, you're taking a beating on every play. In the NBA there is no physical pain in playing so they can be unmotivated and half ass it up and down the court, but not the NFL.

That being said, if the Jaguars hold the #1 pick for the third year in a row in 2023, something should be done behind the scenes to make sure there is no 4th straight year.

[Dave Gray]

That being said, if the Jaguars hold the #1 pick for the third year in a row in 2023, something should be done behind the scenes to make sure there is no 4th straight year.

Not necessary, IMO.  The #1 pick is as much a curse as it is a blessing.  It's a great player, potentially, but with a salary cap, you just can't keep #1 overall talent four years in a row.  That catches up with you.

[Spider-Dan]

The big mistake the Dolphins made was in winning five games in 2019 and not getting Joe Burrow.  If you're tanking, then tank completely and get the best player possible.

This is true but you can't say we didn't try. We basically shipped off any player who even knew how to spell football. However, doesn't change the fact that what is now obviously "useless winning" cost this franchise a lot.

The incredible irony of these kinds of statements is that at the time the tank job in 2019 was explicitly for the player that the Dolphins ended up getting anyway!
It was LITERALLY CALLED "Tank for Tua!"

[Dolfanalyst]

The incredible irony of these kinds of statements is that at the time the tank job in 2019 was explicitly for the player that the Dolphins ended up getting anyway!
It was LITERALLY CALLED "Tank for Tua!"

I think that was the overriding sentiment at the outset of the 2019 season, but as the season went along, with the 2019 college season happening at the same time (the one in which Burrow and LSU won the NC), it became evident that Burrow became the better pick than Tua.  So if they would've tanked "appropriately" they could've had their choice between Burrow and Tua, and I suspect Burrow would've been the choice.  If Burrow wouldn't have been the choice, he sure should've been.

Now Cincinnati has the primary (if not essential) ingredient of a team that can win big in the NFL -- a stud QB/receiver combo in Burrow and Chase -- while the Dolphins pray their players will develop or that they're somehow hindered by the absence of other pieces they'll try to assemble.

[masterfins]

I think it's fairly obvious who the better player was, Waddle was a distant 3rd amongst the "Big 3".

Yeah, and Tua "was" said to be the better player versus Herbert (and you were gung ho for Tua); and where has that gotten the Dolphins?

If Waddle was a complete bust then maybe I might go along with your argument, but Waddle has shown himself to be worthy of a #1 draft pick, and Miami got an extra future #1 pick so it's crazy to say that Miami made a bad trade.

[Spider-Dan]

I think that was the overriding sentiment at the outset of the 2019 season, but as the season went along, with the 2019 college season happening at the same time (the one in which Burrow and LSU won the NC), it became evident that Burrow became the better pick than Tua.

MIA won their first game of the 2019 season on November 3.  Tua went down with a season-ending injury on November 16, a week after losing to LSU 46-41.
The entire time that MIA was successfully tanking, it was to get Tua, and MIA's tank job ended a few days before Tua was lost for the year.

Now obviously, if they had gotten the #1 pick that year and Tua had still gotten injured, they would have chosen Burrow just as CIN did.  But fundamentally, it's bizarre that the Dolphins are being criticized for failing to successfully follow through on a tank job which had the objective of drafting Tua Tagovailoa.

[Pappy13]

I think it's fairly obvious who the better player was, Waddle was a distant 3rd amongst the "Big 3".

I think you're looking at production rather than ability. Certainly Waddle didn't produce as much as the others, but if Miami had a more explosive offense he certainly could have been the MOST productive of any of them which I don't think necessarily should be confused with which player is the best.

[Tenshot13]

I think you're looking at production rather than ability. Certainly Waddle didn't produce as much as the others, but if Miami had a more explosive offense he certainly could have been the MOST productive of any of them which I don't think necessarily should be confused with which player is the best.

Literally the only one he didn't produce more than was Chase.  He outplayed Pitts.

[Pappy13]

Literally the only one he didn't produce more than was Chase.  He outplayed Pitts.

Yeah you are correct, but I'm also taking into consideration that Pitts is a TE and Waddle is a receiver. Regardless, production is not necessarily equivalent to talent level.